From ndtt@ll.iac.es Wed Nov 13 19:55:29 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:55:29 +0000 Subject: object of this list Message-ID: <3DD2AE31.940D5F36@ll.iac.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Which is the object of this list? I suppose that it is to improve the website and its translations. Am I right? Noel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (SunOS) iD8DBQE90q4Ws8tyFYt+mkARAv8LAJ9Xu3h6Rlvh/ODAQXLxaW5a3ZUxrACfWNw3 dO49SqoSDzN+nh7qU1F5X88= =zYoZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 14 10:37:17 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:37:17 +0100 Subject: object of this list Message-ID: <20021114103717.44715.qmail@mail.com> > Which is the object of this list? I suppose that it is to improve the > website and its translations. Am I right? You've guessed right. I'm personally restayling GnuPG site. You can have a preview at http://preview.gnupg.org/. "Porting" is almost done. I'm going to release it within 1-2 weeks. Next step will be translate it. It is here wehere you'd come in. (If you feel like, give an eye at http://preview.gnupg.org/README and http://preview.gnupg.org/README.translator). -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Single & ready to mingle? lavalife.com: Where singles click. Free to Search! http://www.lavalife.com/wp.epl?a=2716 From ndtt@ll.iac.es Thu Nov 14 12:14:07 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:14:07 +0000 Subject: object of this list References: <20021114103717.44715.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DD3938F.F60C85C4@ll.iac.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > > > Which is the object of this list? I suppose that it is to improve the > > website and its translations. Am I right? > > You've guessed right. I'm personally restayling GnuPG site. You can have a preview at http://preview.gnupg.org/. > > "Porting" is almost done. I'm going to release it within 1-2 weeks. Next step will be translate it. It is here wehere you'd come in. (If you feel like, give an eye at http://preview.gnupg.org/README and http://preview.gnupg.org/README.translator). [...] I've a problem: I think I have no cvs client nor possibility about installing one. How can I work? Thanks, Noel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (SunOS) iD8DBQE905Nms8tyFYt+mkARAn0MAKC5G2nbBbQPFFnuER7cVnEucXNauwCgm1ZY EPlGH9skoR1oRPypQ8lRVng= =10z7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 14 12:27:51 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:27:51 +0100 Subject: object of this list Message-ID: <20021114122751.82302.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:14:07 +0000 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Re: object of this list > I've a problem: I think I have no cvs client nor possibility about > installing one. How can I work? Actually, this is a real problem... Because of its sharing nature, site has been designed with CVS in mind. A choice could be this: I send you a tarball, you translate all the pages and then I commit your work in your behalf. PS: may I ask you how came you don't have CVS access at all? Firewalls? -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Single & ready to mingle? lavalife.com: Where singles click. Free to Search! http://www.lavalife.com/wp.epl?a=2716 From ndtt@ll.iac.es Thu Nov 14 12:38:24 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:38:24 +0000 Subject: object of this list References: <20021114122751.82302.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DD39940.13277552@ll.iac.es> Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: [...] > > I've a problem: I think I have no cvs client nor possibility about > > installing one. How can I work? > > Actually, this is a real problem... Because of its sharing nature, site has been designed with CVS in mind. > > A choice could be this: I send you a tarball, you translate all the pages and then I commit your work in your behalf. > Perfect. > PS: may I ask you how came you don't have CVS access at all? Firewalls? Several things. One are the fdirewalls, but I don't know if they will restrict me the CVS access, I suppose no, but I'm not sure. Other is that this computer isn't mine, so to install programs is necessary to talk to sysops. They're nice guys, but their response will be "We dont support that". To install GPG I needed to make some tricks. I don't know if I could compile and install a CVS client. I think there is one installed, but I don't know it at all. I'll investigate it. [...] Take my public key from http://www.geocities.org/envite7/noelpubk.txt Noel Torres From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 14 14:28:17 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:28:17 +0100 Subject: object of this list Message-ID: <20021114142818.40837.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:38:24 +0000 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Re: object of this list > that this computer isn't mine, so to install programs is necessary to If problem is not firwalls, I can tell you there's a nifty CVS client even in (X)Emacs: M-x cvs-examine. (Actually, I use only this one :-) -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Single & ready to mingle? lavalife.com: Where singles click. Free to Search! http://www.lavalife.com/wp.epl?a=2716 From ndtt@ll.iac.es Thu Nov 14 14:42:53 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:42:53 +0000 Subject: object of this list References: <20021114142818.40837.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DD3B66D.B09ECAA3@ll.iac.es> Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: [...] > If problem is not firwalls, I can tell you there's a nifty CVS client even in (X)Emacs: M-x cvs-examine. (Actually, I use only this one :-) [...] I use no emacs at all. But finally I found a CVS client installed. I've never used CVS before, so please be patient with me. Where are the CVS server and which username and password must I use? Noel Torres From ndtt@ll.iac.es Thu Nov 14 15:24:35 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:24:35 +0000 Subject: Commands to use References: <20021114142818.40837.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DD3C033.7125E5BB@ll.iac.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Which CVS commands to use? I used cvs -z3 -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.gnupg.org:/cvs/gpgweb co gnupg-www and it gave me no wml files. Noel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (SunOS) iD8DBQE908Aas8tyFYt+mkARAj6VAJ9SUqnr9hVXNCYoiNwMsqTdTCGLLQCfbZ8W qNpERWwSNNYk67osmj93cH4= =do10 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 14 16:00:16 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:00:16 +0100 Subject: Using CVS [was: object of this list] Message-ID: <20021114160016.68896.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:42:53 +0000 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Re: object of this list > I use no emacs at all. But finally I found a CVS client installed. > I've never used CVS before, so please be patient with me. I recommend you to have a look at Fogel's book (http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/): it's an optimum reading. You'll also find really a lot of interesting pages on the Internet. > Where are the CVS server and which username and password must I use? See whether http://preview.gnupg.org/README.cvs satisfies you. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Single & ready to mingle? lavalife.com: Where singles click. Free to Search! http://www.lavalife.com/wp.epl?a=2716 From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 14 16:38:22 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:38:22 +0100 Subject: Commands to use Message-ID: <20021114163822.21379.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:24:35 +0000 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Commands to use > and it gave me no wml files. "Porting" is currently under a branch. Please use: cvs -z3 -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.gnupg.org:/cvs/gpgweb co -r branch-WML_adoption gnupg-www Plese, do not commit anything now. Thanks. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Single & ready to mingle? lavalife.com: Where singles click. Free to Search! http://www.lavalife.com/wp.epl?a=2716 From wk@gnupg.org Fri Nov 15 12:55:29 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:55:29 +0100 Subject: Commands to use In-Reply-To: <20021114163822.21379.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:38:22 +0100") References: <20021114163822.21379.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87wunfkn5q.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:38:22 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > Plese, do not commit anything now. Thanks. Well, tehre is no way to commit anything using the pserver. A regular account is required. Noel, please send me an ssh-v2 public key. Shalom-Salam, Werner From ndtt@ll.iac.es Fri Nov 15 14:13:11 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:13:11 +0000 Subject: Commands to use References: <20021114163822.21379.qmail@mail.com> <87wunfkn5q.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <3DD500F7.2550929A@ll.iac.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Werner Koch wrote: [...] > Noel, please send me an ssh-v2 public key. [...] Sorry, I said this is the first time I use CVS. How can I create the ssh-v2 keypair? Thanks, Noel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (SunOS) iD8DBQE91QDjs8tyFYt+mkARAqP3AJ9be+/AYuwlvgvGaLyYou/DsNL8fwCeJypf tmBpTQkwEKA0v2nFd2PqpCE= =80sE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sat Nov 16 11:54:55 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:54:55 +0100 Subject: Link for RFC2440? Message-ID: <20021116125454.E1354@quark> Hi all, I've got a question for Werner. Current CVS head holds RFC2440 and its translation in Japan. I think we'd better delegate RFC handling to other sites. (I know there exist some sites which list RFCs... any URL?). Do you agree? A problem araises with Japanese version. I think those sites don't store translated versions, do they? Do you still have original package (if it isn't HTML)? We could provide it as tarball... -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sun Nov 17 10:39:35 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:39:35 +0100 Subject: Encodings Message-ID: <20021117113935.C333@quark> Hi all, Now that we've got our own ML, we can eventually discuss about this topic. I must prefix that I know quite a little about encodings, besides any symbol displayed on the screen (being an ASCII letter or a Japanese ideogram) needs to be encoded in computer memory someway. Recently, George Pauliuc told me something more about, thoug. Thanks George. My two main concerns are about .wml and .html files. 1. HTML files should display in the language user is used to. I hope that changing encoding is as simple as writing the right encoding name in the .html header. We currently have three attributes to fill up: I think that UTF-8 doesn't suit everybody's needs and that the 2-letter language ID (en, de, etc.) is not enough. Am I right? 2. WML files should not get messed up when one just opens and saves a .wml file. I've heard from Debian crew that it has happend because of some text editors. To resize the problem, I don't think it's necessary that any web translator were able to view other translators' translation. What matter is that, when a translator works on his translation, they won't spoil others' work, just because their editor doesn't correctly handle (by ignoring) non-Latin encodings. -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 From pauliuc@gmx.net Sun Nov 17 17:22:30 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 17 Nov 2002 19:22:30 +0200 Subject: Encodings In-Reply-To: <20021117113935.C333@quark> References: <20021117113935.C333@quark> Message-ID: <1037553473.10503.1234.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-ZVNrcjmABQCjdToq+NVJ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Du, 2002-11-17 at 12:39, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > Hi all, Hello Lorenzo! > I think that UTF-8 doesn't suit everybody's needs and that the 2-letter > language ID (en, de, etc.) is not enough. Am I right? Well... I can speak only for the Romanian part - and that is okay. I mean "ro" is enough. The Republic of Moldova is using again Romanian (although for political reasons some want to call it Moldavian - it is the exact same laguages, with some old words, sometimes written in chirilics thanks to URSS). Bottom line, I don't think there will ever be some "ro_MD" id. UTF-8 is also Okay, but only from a theoretical standpoint. Real life shows that most browsing is done via Windows, and the most used browser is in most cases IE. Both Windows and IE have a hard time obeying the standards. First, Romanian it is said to be fully supported, at least in XP. But I hear not even XP has the fonts with all the needed characters. So, some of the chars in my translation, on a Windows machine with the default fonts will show a lot of sqares (instead of the characters it has no equivalent). Regarding IE - beware of how it might react. My main project (http://romdict.sourceforge.net/) uses CSS and a transparent PNG. I was surprised to find out on my girlfriend's computer (she has Windows) that IE5.5 doesn't show transparency in the PNG. And that the justify isn't done as requested by the CSS. As you can see that page isn't anything fancy. But I guess there are other problems involved Windows and IE that should be addressed. I might add that I installed phoenix (a stripped down Mozilla version) on that computer and, although the UTF-8 encoded page couldn't be shown right, the PNG and CSS had no problems and the site was displaied like it shoud. I think encoding (at least in my case) is a taugh decision. I already told Lorenzo the story, but I'll bother again the list for an advice. In Romanian we have two special chars and 's' and a 't' with a comma below it. Latin2 charset should have adress this problem. But there was a mistake. They assumed that is a cedilla and not a comma. So there we have an 's' and a 't' with cedilla below. The explanation is like this - the Turks do have an 's' with a cedilla. But the 't' with a cedilla isn't in any language I know. I can't state there isn't one.=20 But never heard of such a thing. The Turks received later on a new Latin encoding (5?) so Latin2 should have been corrected. But it wasn't. Some font producers corrected the cedilla 't'. And that lead to inconsistency and the 's' still has a cedilla. Finally, there was Latin10 encoding which is correct. This raises two problems. One: there is almost no support for Latin10 - mostly illegaly cracked fonts from Latin2 (the two letters have the same code, only the 'picture' description is different). Two: system like Windows associate Romanian with Latin2, thus most users who have Latin10 fonts installed still use Latin2 fonts. In the case the browser isn't smart enough to get its own fonts, it will restore to default and show my Latin10 encoded page in say Latin1 fonts. And that results in a mess. Unicode repeated the mistake. They say cedilla 't' is for Romanian (?) and no other language is listed there. Again, this character might not even exist. They corrected the problem by adding a Latin Extended B which has the two missing characters. If things would stop here, UTF-8 would be the ideal encoding. But, as I said above, the fonts that come with Windows do not have those two characters. Worse (or logical) the keyboard mappings lead to the cedilla characters and perpetuate the mistake. Bottom line, don't know what encoding to use. Latin10 might result in Latin1 usage even in some of the cases where Latin10 fonts are installed. Latin2 is incorrect. And UTF-8 on Windows doesn't show up right. I was told Mac can print my project pages okay (even the Unicode pages). And I've tested that on various Unices. As long as there are the fonts - the pages are okay. > 2. WML files should not get messed up when one just opens and saves a > .wml file. I've heard from Debian crew that it has happend because of > some text editors. To prevent that, everybody should have its own copy of the main .wml in his/her branch. Redundancy, but avoids some problems. Finally, recode can do a great job of changing the character encoding with almost no effort. > To resize the problem, I don't think it's necessary that any web > translator were able to view other translators' translation. What > matter is that, when a translator works on his translation, they won't > spoil others' work, just because their editor doesn't correctly handle > (by ignoring) non-Latin encodings. Or use UTF-8 for the .wml than convert the output to whatever encoding would be used on the site. --=-ZVNrcjmABQCjdToq+NVJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA9189BEM28XWGBdX8RAnyFAJ92YcuH2InC7kxoViOU0b5t/1cKPQCgsajJ Un4hsXIT+wTEd8Ww+ueg08w= =dpNc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ZVNrcjmABQCjdToq+NVJ-- From ndtt@ll.iac.es Mon Nov 18 09:33:56 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:33:56 +0000 Subject: Encodings Message-ID: <3DD8B404.3A1BFD3D@ll.iac.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have an idea. Maybe it is a mess, but I use it in spanish to represent non-ASCII characters in webpages. I use the proper HTML character entities. All of them start with & and end with ; and I use some of them like aacute for small a with acute over it eacute for small e with acute over it Aacute for capital a with acute over it Eacute for capital e with acute over it ntilde for small n with tilde (something like ALT+126) over it Ntilde for capital n with tilde over it iquest for inverted question mark There are such entities for all characters, since they can be used by name or by number. So really there is no need for multicharacter encoding if we use HTML way to represent those characters. Please look at the view and the code of http://www.geocities.com/envite7/characters.html Noel Torres -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (SunOS) iD8DBQE91/VLs8tyFYt+mkARAjGHAJ99nkq8HMP//D00pna9ipisRmOrRACgthLh lvbm82qI3tUXBwXAaX/Ptxc= =MtbF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ndtt@ll.iac.es Sun Nov 17 20:01:35 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:01:35 +0000 Subject: Encodings References: <20021117113935.C333@quark> <1037553473.10503.1234.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <3DD7F59F.6668B8D8@ll.iac.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have an idea. Maybe it is a mess, but I use it in spanish to represent non-ASCII characters in webpages. I use the proper HTML character entities. All of them start with & and end with ; and I use some of them like aacute for small a with acute over it eacute for small e with acute over it Aacute for capital a with acute over it Eacute for capital e with acute over it ntilde for small n with tilde (something like ALT+126) over it Ntilde for capital n with tilde over it iquest for inverted question mark There are such entities for all characters, since they can be used by name or by number. So really there is no need for multicharacter encoding if we use HTML way to represent those characters. Please look at the view and the code of http://www.geocities.com/envite7/characters.html Noel Torres -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (SunOS) iD8DBQE91/VLs8tyFYt+mkARAjGHAJ99nkq8HMP//D00pna9ipisRmOrRACgthLh lvbm82qI3tUXBwXAaX/Ptxc= =MtbF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wk@gnupg.org Mon Nov 18 14:33:22 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:33:22 +0100 Subject: Link for RFC2440? In-Reply-To: <20021116125454.E1354@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:54:55 +0100") References: <20021116125454.E1354@quark> Message-ID: <87bs4nq765.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:54:55 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > Current CVS head holds RFC2440 and its translation in Japan. I think > we'd better delegate RFC handling to other sites. (I know there exist > some sites which list RFCs... any URL?). Do you agree? I agree. The version we have has some comments on actual GnuPG implementation but I have not touched them for years so the comments should be considered pretty outdated. Please keep the old pages but replace the content of rfc2440.html with a link to another HTMLized version. > A problem araises with Japanese version. I think those sites don't > store translated versions, do they? Do you still have original > package (if it isn't HTML)? We could provide it as tarball... I don't know. Keep the files as they are but link to them. I am sure that Japanese folks will complain and suggest an alternative. Shalom-Salam, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Mon Nov 18 14:45:52 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:45:52 +0100 Subject: Encodings In-Reply-To: <1037553473.10503.1234.camel@redbull.raider.org> (George Pauliuc's message of "17 Nov 2002 19:22:30 +0200") References: <20021117113935.C333@quark> <1037553473.10503.1234.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <878yzrq6lb.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Oh Dear, what a mess. And I thought the Euro symbol is a hard problem ;-) I'd suggest to settle on utf-8 (even with Emacs having a problem) and suggest to use ER for non-ascii characters. Don't know what to do with Asian languages and Cyrillic though. Salam-Shalom, Werner From jakob@grimstveit.net Mon Nov 18 16:30:57 2002 From: jakob@grimstveit.net (Jakob Breivik Grimstveit) Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:30:57 +0100 Subject: Norwegian translation Message-ID: <1037637057.1553.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> --=-tKWQBwhRg70hmJu2yj79 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm going to translate the norwegian version of the gpg website. How many weeks till it is ready for translation? Can we pull down a cvs copy now, or should we hold somewhat still? I'm eager to start :-) My PGP key is available from , in the bottom of that page. --=20 Jakob Breivik Grimstveit Bitwise Computing --=-tKWQBwhRg70hmJu2yj79 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA92RXBbVJI+p0VOwgRAqIbAKCaN9tUl3T9y/OinPtiGjiLha+yPgCghuHY SHj9pqwgfdt1byl1xlZ3I6c= =gZGY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tKWQBwhRg70hmJu2yj79-- From pauliuc@gmx.net Mon Nov 18 19:07:22 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 18 Nov 2002 21:07:22 +0200 Subject: Encodings In-Reply-To: <3DD8B404.3A1BFD3D@ll.iac.es> References: <3DD8B404.3A1BFD3D@ll.iac.es> Message-ID: <1037641105.2668.8.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-/F84kozpuD95e6sJZcyD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood you. You are making not a mess but a big mistake. The problem is not how to print the chars. You have this as you don't even have to bother - after all most browsers (all the recent) default to Latin1 and not ASCII. You didn't understand my message. Please read it again. There are different ENCODINGS. That means that char 0123 means a special char in Latin2. In Latin2 THE CHARS ARE SHOWN WRONG. Because they have a WRONG DESCRIPTION. That was corrected with the less used Latin10. That means 0123 has the same meaning but LINKS with the RIGHT picture. 0123 isn't the value for my char in Unicode. Worse: the method you use brings up a charater that doesn't even look like what I have in mind. You should consider other languages than those supported by Latin1 charset. After all those languages aren't THE ONLY ONES in the world.=20 Not even a the biggest part of the languages that use Latin characters (latin characters and not latin encodings). Please learn more about other languages before launching with such proposals. And if this isn't enough, think how you'll use your solution on a Chinese page. On Lu, 2002-11-18 at 11:33, Noel D. Torres Ta=F1o wrote: > I have an idea. Maybe it is a mess, but I use it in spanish to represent > non-ASCII characters in webpages. > I use the proper HTML character entities. All of them start with & and > end with ; and I use some of them like > aacute for small a with acute over it > eacute for small e with acute over it > Aacute for capital a with acute over it > Eacute for capital e with acute over it > ntilde for small n with tilde (something like ALT+126) over it > Ntilde for capital n with tilde over it > iquest for inverted question mark > There are such entities for all characters, since they can be used by > name or by number. So really there is no need for multicharacter > encoding if we use HTML way to represent those characters. > Please look at the view and the code of > http://www.geocities.com/envite7/characters.html --=-/F84kozpuD95e6sJZcyD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA92SWREM28XWGBdX8RAuk4AKCnzwJRUISxJSlMDFOEfeKHXhORbACgr4sF i3wFZo7AhMflfjO4Ur7tZzs= =ohes -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-/F84kozpuD95e6sJZcyD-- From pauliuc@gmx.net Mon Nov 18 19:07:32 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 18 Nov 2002 21:07:32 +0200 Subject: Encodings In-Reply-To: <878yzrq6lb.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> References: <20021117113935.C333@quark> <1037553473.10503.1234.camel@redbull.raider.org> <878yzrq6lb.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <1037641320.2662.12.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-4FYYUhXeyQIlHdGtQ4eo Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Lu, 2002-11-18 at 16:45, Werner Koch wrote: > Oh Dear, what a mess. And I thought the Euro symbol is a hard problem > ;-) Yea. Remeber that saying "smile, it can get wose". ;-) > I'd suggest to settle on utf-8 (even with Emacs having a problem) and > suggest to use ER for non-ascii characters. Don't know what to do with > Asian languages and Cyrillic though. =20 UTF-8 is the most graceful solution. At least for the development part. But what about the output, the pages that will be delivered to the user of the browser? If Unicode support is broken for Romanian, I bet it is broken for other languages as well. And XP is still the latest Microsoft technology. Don't know about XP2003 ;-) --=-4FYYUhXeyQIlHdGtQ4eo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA92SZoEM28XWGBdX8RAoRPAJ9GkRRomw5Uwply3VT/bbbzpMI3ZQCbBKGt jsleIznYnkLbdw5TJ2BcpzE= =RCme -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-4FYYUhXeyQIlHdGtQ4eo-- From ndtt@ll.iac.es Mon Nov 18 20:07:40 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:07:40 +0000 Subject: Encodings References: <3DD8B404.3A1BFD3D@ll.iac.es> <1037641105.2668.8.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <3DD9488C.8CE9E465@ll.iac.es> First of all, please don't send me the e-mails and CC to the mailing list, because this way I receive your e-mails TWICE. George Pauliuc wrote: > > I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood you. > > You are making not a mess but a big mistake. The problem is not how to > print the chars. You have this as you don't even have to bother - after > all most browsers (all the recent) default to Latin1 and not ASCII. > > You didn't understand my message. Please read it again. There are > different ENCODINGS. That means that char 0123 means a special char in > Latin2. In Latin2 THE CHARS ARE SHOWN WRONG. Because they have a WRONG > DESCRIPTION. That was corrected with the less used Latin10. That means > 0123 has the same meaning but LINKS with the RIGHT picture. 0123 isn't > the value for my char in Unicode. Worse: the method you use brings up a > charater that doesn't even look like what I have in mind. > > You should consider other languages than those supported by Latin1 > charset. After all those languages aren't THE ONLY ONES in the world. > Not even a the biggest part of the languages that use Latin characters > (latin characters and not latin encodings). > > Please learn more about other languages before launching with such > proposals. And if this isn't enough, think how you'll use your solution > on a Chinese page. > I know about other languages. I've used that system to write sentences e.g. in greek, arab and hebrew. MicroSoft's "Times New Roman" font has all the necessary characters. Please tell me if you can see the romanian t and s letters with comma (not cedilla) in my page (I changed it to add four romanian characters, capital and small). That's a way to let all languages be shown, independently of the selected encoding. I can see in my Latin-1 system characters that don't exist in Latin-1 nor even in any Latin-x. But I must agree that it's a very hard way to create a webpage. It's hard in spanish, so I can imagine how hard can it be in other languages like yours. Noel Torres From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 18 21:07:54 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:07:54 +0100 Subject: Link from lists.gnupg.org Message-ID: <20021118220754.A270@quark> Hi Werner, could you please add a link to this ML from http://lists.gnupg.org/ ? Thanks in advance. -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 18 21:23:31 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:23:31 +0100 Subject: Encodings In-Reply-To: <3DD7F59F.6668B8D8@ll.iac.es>; from ndtt@ll.iac.es on Sun, Nov 17, 2002 at 08:01:35PM +0000 References: <20021117113935.C333@quark> <1037553473.10503.1234.camel@redbull.raider.org> <3DD7F59F.6668B8D8@ll.iac.es> Message-ID: <20021118222331.B270@quark> On Sun Nov 17 at 20:01 +0000, Noel D. Torres Ta=F1o wrote: > I use the proper HTML character entities. All of them start with & and > end with ; and I use some of them like > aacute for small a with acute over it I can tell you more. WML features a great tool for that. (see "man wml::fmt::isolatin".) I'm currently using this solution for Itlian=20 which has got few accented letters... Thus, from my point of you it'll be more than easy! --=20 email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From pauliuc@gmx.net Mon Nov 18 21:59:14 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 18 Nov 2002 23:59:14 +0200 Subject: Encodings In-Reply-To: <3DD9488C.8CE9E465@ll.iac.es> References: <3DD8B404.3A1BFD3D@ll.iac.es> <1037641105.2668.8.camel@redbull.raider.org> <3DD9488C.8CE9E465@ll.iac.es> Message-ID: <1037656753.11785.3.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-nkResnGdYF9sx4ymBnF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Lu, 2002-11-18 at 22:07, Noel D. Torres Ta=F1o wrote: > First of all, please don't send me the e-mails and CC to the mailing > list, because this way I receive your e-mails TWICE. Okay. > I know about other languages. I've used that system to write sentences > e.g. in greek, arab and hebrew. MicroSoft's "Times New Roman" font has > all the necessary characters. Please tell me if you can see the romanian > t and s letters with comma (not cedilla) in my page (I changed it to add > four romanian characters, capital and small). That's a way to let all No Windows around here. Guess that test will have to wait. My tests involved a correctly recoded page to UTF-8 browsed at a netcafe around. --=-nkResnGdYF9sx4ymBnF0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA92WKxEM28XWGBdX8RAkfRAJ9B5zw1QJ94ujMv2dfMYGb7OnymPACfQlzl a7Hz5klEpIHsekIkFUc/xSs= =aOVw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-nkResnGdYF9sx4ymBnF0-- From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 18 23:07:06 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:07:06 +0100 Subject: Norwegian translation In-Reply-To: <1037637057.1553.56.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from jakob@grimstveit.net on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 05:30:57PM +0100 References: <1037637057.1553.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20021119000706.G270@quark> --wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon Nov 18 at 17:30 +0100, Jakob Breivik Grimstveit wrote: > I'm going to translate the norwegian version of the gpg website. How > many weeks till it is ready for translation? Can we pull down a cvs copy > now, or should we hold somewhat still? > I'm eager to start :-) I am too, but please, just wait for an English version release. It'll happen by the end of this week, I hope. --=20 email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ --wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Per informazioni si veda http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj3ZcpoACgkQFSNo/NkGTAhzmwCgm5zRze9i1kertk78Kcp749zG VhgAoJL2y8k7GIBRg9aKI7K+Whdr+YAl =zDTH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN-- From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 18 23:04:20 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:04:20 +0100 Subject: Link for RFC2440? In-Reply-To: <87bs4nq765.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>; from wk@gnupg.org on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 03:33:22PM +0100 References: <20021116125454.E1354@quark> <87bs4nq765.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <20021119000420.F270@quark> On Mon Nov 18 at 15:33 +0100, Werner Koch wrote: > Please keep the old pages but replace the content of rfc2440.html with > a link to another HTMLized version. Can I keep it in the sense that it will belong to the (near) old CVS tree? I mean, you can retrieve such file by checking out a old copy of the site... > I don't know. Keep the files as they are but link to them. I am sure > that Japanese folks will complain and suggest an alternative. Do you have an email address to write to? -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From l.cappelletti@mail.com Tue Nov 19 14:47:13 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:47:13 +0100 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20021119144713.41894.qmail@mail.com> Hi all, after reading the long thread about encoding, I've got a proposal for you which aims to be simple yet complete. 1. Translator of lang LL (en, de, ...) chooses the encoding ENC (UTF-8, Latin10, ...) that best suits their needs. 2. Since no information is stored in text (thus .wml) file about encoding, they can translate a .wml file using their favorite text editor and encoding ENC. Translator's editor *must not* corrupt others' translations by simply opening and saving the .wml file! For those of you who needs images for proper language symbol rendering (Romanian), I can provide some WML custom tags to make life easier. 3. Final .html.LL file will be made of text in plain ASCII (mainly tags) and translated text in encoding ENC. No re-encoding is performed. HTML header will be filled out with these attributes: encoding="ENC" lang="LL" In the future we can think to adopt po4a mechanism (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/po4a/). -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From wk@gnupg.org Wed Nov 20 09:34:27 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:34:27 +0100 Subject: Link from lists.gnupg.org In-Reply-To: <20021118220754.A270@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:07:54 +0100") References: <20021118220754.A270@quark> Message-ID: <87d6p0y47w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> > Hi Werner, > could you please add a link to this ML from http://lists.gnupg.org/ ? I thought we keep it private to keep of spam and other moderation tasks. But well, if you like to get it public, lets do it. Salam-Shalom, Werner From ndtt@ll.iac.es Wed Nov 20 10:02:44 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:02:44 +0000 Subject: Link from lists.gnupg.org References: <20021118220754.A270@quark> <87d6p0y47w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <3DDB5DC4.D379FF01@ll.iac.es> Werner Koch wrote: > > > Hi Werner, > > could you please add a link to this ML from http://lists.gnupg.org/ ? > > I thought we keep it private to keep of spam and other moderation > tasks. But well, if you like to get it public, lets do it. > > Salam-Shalom, > > Werner > > _______________________________________________ > Gpgweb-devel mailing list > Gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org > http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gpgweb-devel Better private. You can always use http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gpgweb-devel Noel Torres From l.cappelletti@mail.com Wed Nov 20 12:23:04 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:23:04 +0100 Subject: Link from lists.gnupg.org Message-ID: <20021120122304.43923.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:02:44 +0000 To: GPG Web Subject: Re: Link from lists.gnupg.org > > I thought we keep it private to keep of spam and other moderation > > tasks. But well, if you like to get it public, lets do it. > > > Better private. You can always use > http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gpgweb-devel Well, if you think so... we can give the address to new translators when they contact us via webmaster@gnupg.org... BTW, is webmaster@gnupg.org pointing to the mailing list? -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From wk@gnupg.org Wed Nov 20 12:56:00 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:56:00 +0100 Subject: Link from lists.gnupg.org In-Reply-To: <20021120122304.43923.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:23:04 +0100") References: <20021120122304.43923.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87el9gmmcf.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:23:04 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > BTW, is webmaster@gnupg.org pointing to the mailing list? No, should it? Do you want to get all the spam? I can forward the stuff as long as we keep the list private and don't keep an archive. From l.cappelletti@mail.com Wed Nov 20 13:57:01 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:57:01 +0100 Subject: Link from lists.gnupg.org Message-ID: <20021120135701.67749.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:56:00 +0100 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Re: Link from lists.gnupg.org > No, should it? Do you want to get all the spam? I can forward the > stuff as long as we keep the list private and don't keep an archive. Never mind, then. You're kind of right. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From l.cappelletti@mail.com Wed Nov 20 15:12:34 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:12:34 +0100 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <20021120151235.68352.qmail@mail.com> Hi David, I'm restyling GnuPG site look and I'm almost done with it. You give it an eye at http://preview.gnupg.org/ Of course, I've also include your FAQs. They're available under Documentation section. I'm writing you because you've put some links to GnuPG site in your FAQs and they need to be updated. New site is going to be release in 1-2 week time. Let me know. Thnaks, -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Wed Nov 20 21:48:53 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:48:53 +0100 Subject: Link checking Message-ID: <20021120224853.A737@quark> Hi all, do you have any advice on what piece of software we can use to check site links? I found several utitilies by mean of Debian's `apt-cache search link check', but I'm confused on which one to choose... -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From Jakob Breivik Grimstveit Wed Nov 20 22:28:42 2002 From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit (Jakob Breivik Grimstveit) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:28:42 +0100 Subject: Link checking In-Reply-To: <20021120224853.A737@quark> References: <20021120224853.A737@quark> Message-ID: <12310922866.20021120232842@grimstveit.net> At 20.11.2002 22:48, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote the following: > do you have any advice on what piece of software we can use to check > site links? They link to several others as well. --- Software & Services for Checking Links & Creating Site Maps HTH! -- Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, jakob@grimstveit.net, www.grimstveit.net/jakob/ Morvikbotn 341, 5122 Morvik. Heim: 55195667, mob: 48298152, jobb: 55239715 System Integrator, Star Shipping as, jakob.grimstveit@starshipping.com On the other hand, you also have 5 fingers. From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 21 09:54:47 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:54:47 +0100 Subject: Link checking Message-ID: <20021121095447.31241.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:28:42 +0100 To: Lorenzo Cappelletti Subject: Re: Link checking > At 20.11.2002 22:48, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote the following: > > > do you have any advice on what piece of software we can use to check > > site links? > > It seems it provides many options... have you ever given it a try? -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From Jakob Breivik Grimstveit Thu Nov 21 19:32:20 2002 From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit (Jakob Breivik Grimstveit) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:32:20 +0100 Subject: Link checking In-Reply-To: <20021121095447.31241.qmail@mail.com> References: <20021121095447.31241.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <6413331419.20021121203220@grimstveit.net> At 21.11.2002 10:54, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote the following: > From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit > >> At 20.11.2002 22:48, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote the following: >>=20 >> > do you have any advice on what piece of software we can use to check >> > site links=3F >>=20 >> > > It seems it provides many options... have you ever given it a try=3F Unfortunately I've only tried Windows applications for this purpose. And there the definitive app is without any doubt =ABXenu Link Sleuth=BB, available at . I will contact my other unix forums for more info about good unix versions of this type of app. --=20 Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, jakob@grimstveit.net, www.grimstveit.net/jakob/ Morvikbotn 341, 5122 Morvik. Heim: 55195667, mob: 48298152, jobb: 55239715 System Integrator, Star Shipping as, jakob.grimstveit@starshipping.com Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, for poof... ribbit. From Jakob Breivik Grimstveit Thu Nov 21 22:35:43 2002 From: Jakob Breivik Grimstveit (Jakob Breivik Grimstveit) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:35:43 +0100 Subject: Link checking In-Reply-To: <6413331419.20021121203220@grimstveit.net> References: <20021121095447.31241.qmail@mail.com> <6413331419.20021121203220@grimstveit.net> Message-ID: <9024333589.20021121233543@grimstveit.net> At 21.11.2002 20:32, Jakob Breivik Grimstveit wrote the following: > I will contact my other unix forums for more info about good unix > versions of this type of app. And I got a quick answer :-) Checkbot (in perl) looks just like the thing you need for this purpose. Hope this helps -- Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, jakob@grimstveit.net, www.grimstveit.net/jakob/ Morvikbotn 341, 5122 Morvik. Heim: 55195667, mob: 48298152, jobb: 55239715 System Integrator, Star Shipping as, jakob.grimstveit@starshipping.com I hit the CTRL key but I'm still not in control! From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Nov 22 08:47:26 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:47:26 +0100 Subject: Encoding: a proposal Message-ID: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> (Since nobody has replied to my message yet, probably because of missing subject, I repost it here) Hi all, after reading the long thread about encoding, I've got a proposal for you which aims to be simple yet complete. 1. Translator of lang LL (en, de, ...) chooses the encoding ENC (UTF-8, Latin10, ...) that best suits their needs. 2. Since no information is stored in text (thus .wml) file about encoding, they can translate a .wml file using their favorite text editor and encoding ENC. Translator's editor *must not* corrupt others' translations by simply opening and saving the .wml file! For those of you who needs images for proper language symbol rendering (Romanian), I can provide some WML custom tags to make life easier. 3. Final .html.LL file will be made of text in plain ASCII (mainly tags) and translated text in encoding ENC. No re-encoding is performed. HTML header will be filled out with these attributes: encoding="ENC" lang="LL" In the future we can think to adopt po4a mechanism (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/po4a/). -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Nov 22 14:26:20 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:26:20 +0100 Subject: Old site freeze? Message-ID: <20021122142621.16663.qmail@mail.com> Hi Werner, I'm getting to the end of site development. At this stage a need to synchronize new site contents with old one. It's taken me several months to move all the pages and you've added something new since I started the branch. Could you please, then, freeze the old site? This means that http://www.gnugp.org is no longer updated automatically and nothing will be added to the CVS trunk. By the end of next week I think I'll be ready to release the first English-only revision of the new site. Translations will be release when ready. Cheers, -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From pauliuc@gmx.net Fri Nov 22 16:05:06 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 22 Nov 2002 18:05:06 +0200 Subject: Encoding: a proposal In-Reply-To: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> References: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-tLDu8jDwsJbAns4qYClA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Vi, 2002-11-22 at 10:47, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > 1. Translator of lang LL (en, de, ...) chooses the encoding ENC (UTF-8, > Latin10, ...) that best suits their needs. Sounds excelent. After all eacy translator should use whatever encoding likes best. UTF-8 would be the best choice, but most editors nowadays still don't have UTF-8 support (or it is implemented badly/experimental). Because it is a multibyte representation it is really easy to screw in case somebody makes a mistake and tries to interpret it as single-byte encoding. I know, it happened to me ;-) > 2. Since no information is stored in text (thus .wml) file about > encoding, they can translate a .wml file using their favorite text > editor and encoding ENC. Right. > Translator's editor *must not* corrupt others' translations by simply > opening and saving the .wml file! Shouldn't be easier to make something like first step 'cp xx.wml xx.LL.wml'? And to make sure - block the update of xx.wml from anybody than you or anybody who takes care of the original version (which probably will always be in English, so no special encoding is used). > For those of you who needs images for proper language symbol rendering > (Romanian), I can provide some WML custom tags to make life easier. Hmm... what do you have in mind Lorenzo? > 3. Final .html.LL file will be made of text in plain ASCII (mainly > tags) and translated text in encoding ENC. No re-encoding is > performed. Plain ASCII? The text will be included? Sounds like XML -> XSLT -> XHTML. Where will the encoding be? > HTML header will be filled out with these attributes: > encoding=3D"ENC" > lang=3D"LL" Could you describe in more detail the mechanism you plann to use? I'm not sure I understand what will happen with the text. I know it is silly, but, for beginning what is this .wml file? I understand it is some formated text. How? From where can I get more details. > In the future we can think to adopt po4a mechanism > (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/po4a/). The project looks quite in alpha stage. --=-tLDu8jDwsJbAns4qYClA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA93jNXEM28XWGBdX8RAohVAKCWHan2+9vqI1U8v3wgJpvnJEN7+QCbB+kr WUKvLOG2bPqQ9u8V93NH/C0= =8Tjo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tLDu8jDwsJbAns4qYClA-- From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sun Nov 24 19:12:05 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:12:05 +0100 Subject: Encoding: a proposal In-Reply-To: <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org>; from pauliuc@gmx.net on Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 06:05:06PM +0200 References: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <20021124201205.B224@quark> On Fri Nov 22 at 18:05 +0200, George Pauliuc wrote: > really easy to screw in case somebody makes a mistake and tries to > interpret it as single-byte encoding. I know, it happened to me ;-) Can you tell me how I can know for sure what encoding one is using on their *nix system? > Shouldn't be easier to make something like first step 'cp xx.wml > xx.LL.wml'? And to make sure - block the update of xx.wml from anybody Unfortunately, not. (Read below). > > For those of you who needs images for proper language symbol rendering > > (Romanian), I can provide some WML custom tags to make life easier. > > Hmm... what do you have in mind Lorenzo? Maybe you... who knwos?!? > Could you describe in more detail the mechanism you plann to use? I'm > not sure I understand what will happen with the text. > > I know it is silly, but, for beginning what is this .wml file? I > understand it is some formated text. How? From where can I get more > details. For designing this site I decided to use WML (http://www.thewml.org/), the Website META Language by Ralf Engelschall. From his page: WML is a free and extensible Webdesigner's off-line HTML generation toolkit for Unix. WML consists of a control frontend driving up to nine backends in a sequential pass-oriented filtering scheme. Each backend provides one particular core language. For maximum power WML additionally ships with a well-suited set of include files which provide higher-level features build on top of the backends core languages. While not trivial and idiot proof WML provides most of the core features real hackers always wanted for HTML generation. It is used to build and display Debian site in so many languages... But I decided to used a different scheme inspired by .po files. There they use one subdirectory for each language. A translator has to open two files, one with the original version, and one with the translated one. What's worst, translator (or site maintainer) has to take care of updating, for each language, also HTML look, too, not just contents. Here translator has their own translation just below the orginal sentence being translated, just like .po files. Common parts are really common to all languages and not repeated throghout each language subdirs. Unfortunately, I didn't know that encoding might be such an hassle. Anyway, going back to .wml files... You should think to have something like this: # file.wml
  • (en)this is in english (ru)text in romanian encoding: #@^#@...
    • After a `wml file.wml', you'll get: # file.html.en
    • this is in english
    # file.html.ru
    • text in romanian encoding: #@^#@...
    In other words, common parts are just copied from .wml file to .html.xx files, while translation are copied only in to the file they belong to. No actions are taken on translations. That's why I believe a translator can choose the enconding that they like best and see their multi-byte text simply copied from .wml files to .html.xx files. > > In the future we can think to adopt po4a mechanism > > (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/po4a/). > > The project looks quite in alpha stage. Abso-bloody-lutely true. -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sun Nov 24 18:41:13 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:41:13 +0100 Subject: Old site freeze? In-Reply-To: <878yzk8oyv.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>; from wk@gnupg.org on Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:12:08PM +0100 References: <20021122142621.16663.qmail@mail.com> <878yzk8oyv.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <20021124194113.A224@quark> On Sat Nov 23 at 13:12 +0100, Werner Koch wrote: > Okay. Except for emergency notes, I won't update the website > anymore. I'll even disable the build script. Please, note that after I merged my branch to the trunk, old site will just disapear. You'll have to add emergency notes to the current version under Apache site directory. (Please, drop me an email if you do it). -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sun Nov 24 21:54:00 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:54:00 +0100 Subject: Link checking In-Reply-To: <9024333589.20021121233543@grimstveit.net>; from jakob@grimstveit.net on Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 11:35:43PM +0100 References: <20021121095447.31241.qmail@mail.com> <6413331419.20021121203220@grimstveit.net> <9024333589.20021121233543@grimstveit.net> Message-ID: <20021124225400.C417@quark> On Thu Nov 21 at 23:35 +0100, Jakob Breivik Grimstveit wrote: > Checkbot (in perl) looks just like the > thing you need for this purpose. Hi Werner, I saw there's also a .deb package for Checkbot. Do you think we can install it on gnupg.org? I haven't given it a try, yet, but I think that after all we just need a link checker. And that is it! Cheers, -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From pauliuc@gmx.net Sun Nov 24 23:23:10 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 25 Nov 2002 01:23:10 +0200 Subject: Encoding: a proposal In-Reply-To: <20021124201205.B224@quark> References: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org> <20021124201205.B224@quark> Message-ID: <1038180190.5353.24.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-rI36vEdMpZRBXuhsfCFm Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Du, 2002-11-24 at 21:12, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > Can you tell me how I can know for sure what encoding one is using on > their *nix system? AFAIK you can't. So probably there have to be different wml files for each translation. First of all, we don't know if all translators will be using Unix. Thus a script that will create the tree for a translator is impossible to handle all configurations. > > Hmm... what do you have in mind Lorenzo? > Maybe you... who knwos?!? In this case I'll ask on the way. Never done anything like that. > There they use one subdirectory for each language. A translator has to > open two files, one with the original version, and one with the > translated one. What's worst, translator (or site maintainer) has to > take care of updating, for each language, also HTML look, too, not > just contents. The work is too much. And, prone to mistakes on both sides - admin and translator. IMHO not a very good idea after all. > Here translator has their own translation just below the orginal > sentence being translated, just like .po files. Common parts are really > common to all languages and not repeated throghout each language > subdirs. Unfortunately, I didn't know that encoding might be such an > hassle. Keeping all in one file. Hmm... only UTF-8 might solve the problem.=20 And remeber, a simple mistake like saving as a different encoding might ruin the work. > Anyway, going back to .wml files... You should think to have something > like this: >=20 > # file.wml >
      >
    • > (en)this is in english > (ru)text in romanian encoding: #@^#@... One note: ru is for Russian. I believe germans have Rumanien. It's the only language I know that spells it like that. Everybody else has Romania. Also, the international codes for Romania and Romanian are either 'ro' or 'rom'. > In other words, common parts are just copied from .wml file to .html.xx > files, while translation are copied only in to the file they belong to. > No actions are taken on translations. >=20 > That's why I believe a translator can choose the enconding that they > like best and see their multi-byte text simply copied from .wml files to > .html.xx files. Shouldn't they be .LL.html instead of .html.LL? On Windows-like systems that will cause confusion as the system will conside the language code the actual extension. --=-rI36vEdMpZRBXuhsfCFm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA94V9eEM28XWGBdX8RAsAwAJ0eMI294fVAXn0jrDGzwYR32F0JNwCcDtjl LINzPNY5TqNQsa8Ql1PF5og= =U+3K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-rI36vEdMpZRBXuhsfCFm-- From wk@gnupg.org Mon Nov 25 17:03:02 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:03:02 +0100 Subject: Link checking In-Reply-To: <20021124225400.C417@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:54:00 +0100") References: <20021121095447.31241.qmail@mail.com> <6413331419.20021121203220@grimstveit.net> <9024333589.20021121233543@grimstveit.net> <20021124225400.C417@quark> Message-ID: <877kf137ll.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:54:00 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > I saw there's also a .deb package for Checkbot. Do you think we can > install it on gnupg.org? Done. From wk@gnupg.org Mon Nov 25 17:09:24 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:09:24 +0100 Subject: Encoding: a proposal In-Reply-To: <1038180190.5353.24.camel@redbull.raider.org> (George Pauliuc's message of "25 Nov 2002 01:23:10 +0200") References: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org> <20021124201205.B224@quark> <1038180190.5353.24.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <874ra537az.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On 25 Nov 2002 01:23:10 +0200, George Pauliuc said: > Shouldn't they be .LL.html instead of .html.LL? On Windows-like systems > that will cause confusion as the system will conside the language code > the actual extension. Yes that would be better. I need to tinker with Caudium to change it. Salam-Shalom, Werner From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 25 22:36:00 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:36:00 +0100 Subject: Encoding: a proposal Message-ID: <20021125223600.95383.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:09:24 +0100 To: GnuPG Web Devel Subject: Re: Encoding: a proposal > Yes that would be better. I need to tinker with Caudium to change it. Werner meant that GnuPG.org uses Caudiom as web server which in turn uses *.html.LL scheme. To me, I haven't had any problem, yet. Moreover, if you try to retrieve a page like /index.html, it works since the site building script makes a symlink to index.html.en. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 25 22:49:34 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:49:34 +0100 Subject: Link checking Message-ID: <20021125224934.12978.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:03:02 +0100 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Re: Link checking > Done. Thanks, it's very kind of you. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Mon Nov 25 22:57:21 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:57:21 +0100 Subject: Encoding: a proposal In-Reply-To: <1038180190.5353.24.camel@redbull.raider.org>; from pauliuc@gmx.net on Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:23:10AM +0200 References: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org> <20021124201205.B224@quark> <1038180190.5353.24.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <20021125235721.B273@quark> On Mon Nov 25 at 01:23 +0200, George Pauliuc wrote: > > Can you tell me how I can know for sure what encoding one is using on > > their *nix system? > > AFAIK you can't. So probably there have to be different wml files for I'm not thinking about any script. Mine was just a question. > The work is too much. And, prone to mistakes on both sides - admin and > translator. IMHO not a very good idea after all. That's why I discarded it. > Keeping all in one file. Hmm... only UTF-8 might solve the problem. > And remeber, a simple mistake like saving as a different encoding might > ruin the work. It seems impossible to me that there's no editors with which you can open a file with a foreign encoding and save it without loosing any information... I think we should give it a try... could you checkout latest site revision, translate just a message with your encoding (apart from those symbols you talked about) and send it to me? > One note: ru is for Russian. I believe germans have Rumanien. It's the Sorry, my fault. -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From pauliuc@gmx.net Mon Nov 25 23:14:12 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 26 Nov 2002 01:14:12 +0200 Subject: Encoding: a proposal In-Reply-To: <20021125235721.B273@quark> References: <20021122084726.27174.qmail@mail.com> <1037972312.2103.9.camel@redbull.raider.org> <20021124201205.B224@quark> <1038180190.5353.24.camel@redbull.raider.org> <20021125235721.B273@quark> Message-ID: <1038266052.16247.11.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-MfBn1gnRHbYg5KYh99vR Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Ma, 2002-11-26 at 00:57, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > It seems impossible to me that there's no editors with which you can > open a file with a foreign encoding and save it without loosing any > information... Of course - vim ;-) But it also has to be tweaked as most keyboards do speak Latin encodings and not Unicode. But we're close to that time when all will go to Unicode. I hear that RH8.0 does that, and probably MDK9.0 and soon the other Linux distributions will use Unicode by default and not just "Unicode enabled". > I think we should give it a try... could you checkout latest site > revision, translate just a message with your encoding (apart from those > symbols you talked about) and send it to me? It's okay with me. Is the new site in the cvs? --=-MfBn1gnRHbYg5KYh99vR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA94q7EEM28XWGBdX8RArysAJ95opqwPm+L2T1XTvVZ8F0VPSGjPgCggGAj HrRBntFY9dlh3B0T5uNHRzw= =IOJB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-MfBn1gnRHbYg5KYh99vR-- From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Tue Nov 26 20:19:44 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:19:44 +0100 Subject: Encoding proposal test [was: Encoding: a proposal] Message-ID: <20021126211944.A297@quark> On Tue Nov 26 at 01:14 +0200, George Pauliuc wrote: > Of course - vim ;-) But it also has to be tweaked as most keyboards do > speak Latin encodings and not Unicode. But we're close to that time What if we don't use any common encoding at all? Can I use my own encoding, whilst you use yours and we both don't scramble each other's work? I do believe (X)Emacs can be used... is there any other editor, as far as you know? > It's okay with me. Is the new site in the cvs? Yes, but you have to checkout branch-WML_adoption branch if you want to get access to the new site. Or you can retrieve the .wml source file directly from the web: http://preview.gnupg.org/index.wml -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From pauliuc@gmx.net Wed Nov 27 09:42:23 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 27 Nov 2002 11:42:23 +0200 Subject: Encoding proposal test [was: Encoding: a proposal] In-Reply-To: <20021126211944.A297@quark> References: <20021126211944.A297@quark> Message-ID: <1038390051.14245.28.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-lA4VGXXPRSrbWPOdkQ8Q Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Ma, 2002-11-26 at 22:19, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > What if we don't use any common encoding at all? > Can I use my own encoding, whilst you use yours and we both don't > scramble each other's work? Quite dangerous. And things like Word are out of the question. This things must be specified. Also, there has to be a test that every translator has to make just to be sure that his/her editor doesn't do any changes. --=-lA4VGXXPRSrbWPOdkQ8Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA95JMjEM28XWGBdX8RArX9AKC+FSvoDZKprFDy1BxQND0CC5+UQgCeNihz N7RA6DRHNIW/Ina+CwWacYM= =PNI3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-lA4VGXXPRSrbWPOdkQ8Q-- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Wed Nov 27 16:12:45 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:12:45 +0100 Subject: Encoding proposal test Message-ID: <20021127161246.84896.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: George Pauliuc Date: 27 Nov 2002 11:42:23 +0200 To: GnuPG Web Devel Subject: Re: Encoding proposal test [was: Encoding: a proposal] > Quite dangerous. And things like Word are out of the question. This > things must be specified. Also, there has to be a test that every > translator has to make just to be sure that his/her editor doesn't do > any changes. True, but we have to get to a trade-off, that balances between easiness (one single file, stacked message catalogs) and fail safe (wrong or misused editor). In the end, we'll use po4all. Do you think it's enough if - I put a big warning in the README.translator file. - I set up an automatic test. - we considere that everything is under CVS control. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Nov 28 09:41:25 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:41:25 +0100 Subject: Announcements in news list? Message-ID: <20021128094125.21849.qmail@mail.com> Hi Werner, I noticed news list is pretty scanty, lately. Do you think I can add some announcements from Gnupg-announce ML? Something like RPMs 2002-10-28 I'm currently uploading RPMs packages for gnupg 1.2.1. At this moment I've uploaded src and mdk 9.0 packages. The latter is built with gcc 2.96. [more...] where [more...] points to the whole announcement in the ML archive. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From wk@gnupg.org Thu Nov 28 09:50:30 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:50:30 +0100 Subject: Announcements in news list? In-Reply-To: <20021128094125.21849.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:41:25 +0100") References: <20021128094125.21849.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87vg2ivx95.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:41:25 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > I'm currently uploading RPMs packages for gnupg 1.2.1. > At this moment I've uploaded src and mdk 9.0 packages. > The latter is built with gcc 2.96. [more...] Good idea. Please do so if you like. Salam-Shalom, Werner From pauliuc@gmx.net Thu Nov 28 13:46:18 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 28 Nov 2002 15:46:18 +0200 Subject: Encoding proposal test In-Reply-To: <20021127161246.84896.qmail@mail.com> References: <20021127161246.84896.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <1038485507.2258.0.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-Rhfeb2YzZEpQw3ou4esQ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mi, 2002-11-27 at 18:12, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > Do you think it's enough if > - I put a big warning in the README.translator file. > - I set up an automatic test. > - we considere that everything is under CVS control. And some backup from time to time ;-) --=-Rhfeb2YzZEpQw3ou4esQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA95ggDEM28XWGBdX8RAiXzAJsHuTprHkywjbr6ETyU6Q9Knn2FIwCfZ576 KTlUXB8aVXA2jQv0wmj8C+A= =qLyl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Rhfeb2YzZEpQw3ou4esQ-- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Nov 29 13:43:22 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:43:22 +0100 Subject: Using BTS? Message-ID: <20021129134322.97278.qmail@mail.com> Hi all, GnuPG project has its own bug tracking system available at http://bugs.guug.de/ based on Debian's BTS. I was thinking... why not to use such a powerful tool to keep track of website bugs? Where "bug" means: dangling links, awkaward page rendering by some browsers, wrong translations... Is that possible, Werner? -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From wk@gnupg.org Fri Nov 29 14:25:56 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:25:56 +0100 Subject: Using BTS? In-Reply-To: <20021129134322.97278.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:43:22 +0100") References: <20021129134322.97278.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87fztktpu3.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:43:22 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > I was thinking... why not to use such a powerful tool to keep track of > website bugs? Where "bug" means: dangling links, awkaward page > rendering by some browsers, wrong translations... > Is that possible, Werner? The BTS is full of spam, so I actually don't use it. It is likely that we switch to another one. Shalom-Salam, Werner From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Nov 29 14:44:20 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:44:20 +0100 Subject: Using BTS? Message-ID: <20021129144420.74433.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:25:56 +0100 To: "Lorenzo Cappelletti" Subject: Re: Using BTS? > The BTS is full of spam, so I actually don't use it. It is likely > that we switch to another one. Is it? I've never thought spam could be such a big hassle... Anyway, spam apart, do you believe it may be wise to use a BTS for a site? Is that possible? Or is it too much... I've never used a BTS by myself... -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From wk@gnupg.org Fri Nov 29 15:20:25 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:20:25 +0100 Subject: Using BTS? In-Reply-To: <20021129144420.74433.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:44:20 +0100") References: <20021129144420.74433.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87adjstnba.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:44:20 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > Anyway, spam apart, do you believe it may be wise to use a BTS for > a site? Is that possible? Or is it too much... Web stuff is usually fixed faster than the time needed to maintain the bug in the BTS. Well, at least for our application. Shalom-Salam, Werner From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sun Dec 1 11:56:11 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:56:11 +0100 Subject: First release of new site Message-ID: <20021201125611.C399@quark> Hi all, today, I merged branch-WML_adoption to the main trunk. You should notice that I decided not to remove old site revision's directories because I don't know exactly how aegypten subdirectory is currently handled. For the very same reason, site is not available as http://www.gnupg.org/, yet. Werner, could you take care of deleting all the stuff that is no longer needed? >From my point of view, new site is ready to be translated, i.e. in the following weeks, I won't add any new message (except for news). Please, note though that George and I are still defining a procedure about how to handle encodings. As I alredy mentioned, you can find valuable information to start up at http://preview.gnugp.org/README http://preview.gnugp.org/README.cvs http://preview.gnugp.org/README.translator Previous site version (for those of you who has had site partly translated) is available as `tag-old_style_site_freeze' (see README.cvs). Don't hesitate to contact me, if needed. -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From ndtt@ll.iac.es Mon Dec 2 10:42:05 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:42:05 +0000 Subject: Appearance problem in new page References: <20021201125611.C399@quark> Message-ID: <3DEB38FD.5BB84D45@ll.iac.es> The HTML version of the WML page that I see in preview.gnupg.org has an appearance problem: There are a lot of space around links: Because it does[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]not use the patented IDEA[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]algorithm,[...] GnuPG is[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]Free Software[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]. Noel From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Dec 2 11:34:46 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:34:46 +0100 Subject: Appearance problem in new page Message-ID: <20021202113446.99209.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:42:05 +0000 To: GPG Web Subject: Appearance problem in new page > Because it does[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]not use the patented IDEA[A LOT OF > SPACE HERE]algorithm,[...] > GnuPG is[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]Free Software[A LOT OF SPACE HERE]. Pretty strange... it could be due to the fact that I use "text-align: justify;" in http://preview.gnupg.org/share/site.css Could you tell me 1. what browser you're experiencing this problem 2. what your monitor resolution is Can you send me a small snapshot (directly to me, not via ML)? -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 2 12:42:55 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:42:55 +0100 Subject: Appearance problem in new page In-Reply-To: <20021202113446.99209.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:34:46 +0100") References: <20021202113446.99209.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87smxgpp68.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:34:46 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > Pretty strange... it could be due to the fact that I use "text-align: > justify;" in http://preview.gnupg.org/share/site.css I don't think that justify is a good idea. It depends on the width of your browser windows and except for TeX most text preocessing programs don't get it right. Better use left justified (default) alignment. Shalom-Salam, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 2 12:44:07 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:44:07 +0100 Subject: First release of new site In-Reply-To: <20021201125611.C399@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:56:11 +0100") References: <20021201125611.C399@quark> Message-ID: <87of84pp48.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> > today, I merged branch-WML_adoption to the main trunk. Thanks. > http://www.gnupg.org/, yet. Werner, could you take care of deleting all > the stuff that is no longer needed? Done. Salam-Shalom, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 2 13:12:02 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:12:02 +0100 Subject: Comments on the new design Message-ID: <87lm38pntp.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Hi! I have a few comments on the new design. Here are critical ones: - There is no way to switch between languages. The entire system works only by using the HTTP defined mechanism. Having links at the top to switch between languages are highly appreciated. - Release notes: The links to the announcement mails are messed up. These are not critical: - No Graphics: I'd prefer to see the G uPG Logo and maybe the GBNU Logo again. - Mirror list: Can we divide the country list into regions (Asia, Africa, ...) again. - Some fonts are too small. E.g. on the download page it is hard to read the filenames and MD5 sums. Shalom-Salam, Werner From ndtt@ll.iac.es Mon Dec 2 14:15:50 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:15:50 +0000 Subject: Appearance problem in new page References: <20021202113446.99209.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DEB6B16.4EAECAEA@ll.iac.es> Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: [...] > 1. what browser you're experiencing this problem Netscape 4.76 > 2. what your monitor resolution is A lot > Can you send me a small snapshot (directly to me, not via ML)? Sent Noel From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Dec 2 14:20:17 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:20:17 +0100 Subject: Comments on the new design Message-ID: <20021202142017.36179.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:12:02 +0100 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Comments on the new design > - There is no way to switch between languages. The entire system > works only by using the HTTP defined mechanism. Having links at the > top to switch between languages are highly appreciated. That've been done on porpouse, till the site is translated in one or more languages. Visiting German pages should result in a warning message like this: Page is currently subjected to an heavy reconstruction. Thus, translation may be innacurate, lacking, or completely missing. Please, refer to the original. but I forgot to add it to lib/i18n.wml... sorry. > - Release notes: The links to the announcement mails are messed up. True, I'm wondering why... not hard to fix it, though. > - No Graphics: I'd prefer to see the G uPG Logo and maybe the GBNU > Logo again. True again, but: 1. I wanted to release a version so that others can start translating. 2. I don't know exactly where to put them... any idea? > - Mirror list: Can we divide the country list into regions (Asia, > Africa, ...) again. This is a bit harder... but I'll do it. > - Some fonts are too small. E.g. on the download page it is hard to > read the filenames and MD5 sums. Actually, I'm using a fixed font... not really cool move, I know. I already wanted to review *.css files and make them W3C compliant. Let put it this way: site is ready to be translated (i.e., no message will change), but we can wait for making it publicly available till I fix those bugs, if you prefer. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From ndtt@ll.iac.es Mon Dec 2 14:26:01 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:26:01 +0000 Subject: How to start translations? Message-ID: <3DEB6D79.AA16C1BD@ll.iac.es> I think I have no CVS access enought to submit changes, since I've not sent any keys to Werner. How must I create those keys? Noel From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 2 14:44:28 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:44:28 +0100 Subject: Comments on the new design In-Reply-To: <20021202142017.36179.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:20:17 +0100") References: <20021202142017.36179.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87fztgpjjn.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 15:20:17 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > That've been done on porpouse, till the site is translated in one or > more languages. Ah okay. > 1. I wanted to release a version so that others can start translating. I agree. > 2. I don't know exactly where to put them... any idea? At the top of the first page? A Gnu might be nice below the navigation bar. >> - Mirror list: Can we divide the country list into regions (Asia, >> Africa, ...) again. > This is a bit harder... but I'll do it. Not important now. I noticed that becuase it is not that long ago that I hacked my old script to do it. > Actually, I'm using a fixed font... not really cool move, I know. I > already wanted to review *.css files and make them W3C compliant. Okay. > Let put it this way: site is ready to be translated (i.e., no message > will change), but we can wait for making it publicly available till I > fix those bugs, if you prefer. Lets fix the news links and I'll put it online. I promised far too long that we will have a new site design. We can fix bugs later. Shalom-Salam, Werner From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Dec 2 16:17:42 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (l.cappelletti@mail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 17:17:42 +0100 Subject: How to start translations? Message-ID: <20021202161742.90338.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:26:01 +0000 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: How to start translations? > I think I have no CVS access enought to submit changes, since I've not > sent any keys to Werner. How must I create those keys? An hyper quick search on the Net has given me this (which should suit our needs, too): http://lfc.sourceforge.net/cvs.html http://lfc.sourceforge.net/cvs.html#Unix/Linux http://lfc.sourceforge.net/cvs.html#SSH identity keys http://lfc.sourceforge.net/cvs.html#More CVS/SSH information More at http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=765&group_id=1 http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=763&group_id=1 http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=761&group_id=1 -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From graf@zahav.net.il Mon Dec 2 21:43:11 2002 From: graf@zahav.net.il (Dov Margulis) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:43:11 +0200 Subject: Starting The translation Message-ID: Hi Everybody, I've been watching very closely your email correspondence ever since our mailing list start on 15/11 and ever since the correspondence itself begun on 17/11 until today. I'm glad to see the new site is Online :) TOUCHE guys We Have to start CODING !!! Do you have some sort of final agreement about editors/encoding/etc.. I personally use both Linux/Windows so I'm pretty much as flexible as one gets ;) I mostly use mozilla but do we aim for the majority (Windows+IE) ??? Do we intend to be W3C Validated ??? Dov. From l.cappelletti@mail.com Tue Dec 3 08:30:36 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:30:36 +0100 Subject: Starting The translation Message-ID: <20021203083036.1990.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dov Margulis" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:43:11 +0200 To: Subject: Starting The translation > We Have to start CODING !!! > > Do you have some sort of final agreement about editors/encoding/etc.. Unfortunately, not yet. I'm still wait for a test page from George. > I mostly use mozilla but do we aim for the majority (Windows+IE) ??? > Do we intend to be W3C Validated ??? We surely do, both XHTML and CSS! I've to do some more coding (barely, site map) before, but validation is among my priorities. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From ndtt@ll.iac.es Tue Dec 3 09:07:23 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:07:23 +0000 Subject: Starting The translation References: <20021203083036.1990.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DEC744B.C9F27BDC@ll.iac.es> > > Do we intend to be W3C Validated ??? > > We surely do, both XHTML and CSS! I've to do some more coding (barely, > site map) before, but validation is among my priorities. I accustomed to do W3C valid pages, count with me if you need any help. Noel From l.cappelletti@mail.com Tue Dec 3 12:25:55 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:25:55 +0100 Subject: Starting The translation Message-ID: <20021203122555.85172.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:07:23 +0000 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: Re: Starting The translation > > > Do we intend to be W3C Validated ??? > > > > We surely do, both XHTML and CSS! I've to do some more coding (barely, > > site map) before, but validation is among my priorities. > > I accustomed to do W3C valid pages, count with me if you need any help. Here I am... How can I make a page centered? W3C validator compalins about a
      ... -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From ndtt@ll.iac.es Tue Dec 3 13:43:06 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:43:06 +0000 Subject: Starting The translation References: <20021203122555.85172.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <3DECB4EA.64AA64D8@ll.iac.es> > Here I am... How can I make a page centered? W3C validator compalins > about a
      ... You no longer can use the align attribute. Use a style instead. You can use a css via LINK or an internal style via STYLE, or even an element style via style: or and then
      blah blah blah
      The other way:
      blah blah blah
      Good luck! From michael@nahrath.de Wed Dec 4 11:57:16 2002 From: michael@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:57:16 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear Webmaster, [I first sent this mail to Werner in German language, because according to the 'meta'-elements he is the 'Author' and 'Translator'. This is mainly a translation of the mail I sent to him yesterday] I like the new site. It's a bit surprising for a GNU project but not yet overloaded. While taking a look at the code ("who did they do this ..." ;-) my editor printed out an error report. Maybe you are interested. This report is for in special. > File "00003A38.html"; Line 20: Document type doesn't permit attribute > =B3align=B2 within element =B3
      =B2. By you declare to use 'XHTML 1.0 strict'. But this is not what you are doing. The site uses several attributes that are not contained in the 'strict' variant of XHTML 1.0. Rather use (according to your coding) > File "00003A38.html"; Line 20: Value of attribute =B3cellspacing=B2 for > element =B3=B2 must be a number or percent (for example =B350=B2 or =B350%=B2)= . > File "00003A38.html"; Line 25: Value of attribute =B3width=B2 for element > =B3=B2 must be a number or percent (for example =B350=B2 or =B350%=B2). > [repeated ...] You use the unit 'px' for lengths in XHTML attributes. That is wrong. That was the way you'd do it in CSS but XHTML length attributes are always in 'px' and therefor written without unit. is wrong whereas would be right. > File "00003A38.html"; Line 27: Document type doesn't permit attribute > =B3height=B2 within element =B3=B2. > [repeated ...] HTML4 and XHTML1 don't define the attribute 'hight' for the 'tr' element. Instead it may be used for 'td' and 'th': Its use is 'deprecated', but still allowed if you use the 'transitional' flavour of XHTML1. > File "Users:michi:Library:Preferences:iCab Preferences:iCab > Cache:g:00003A38.html"; Line 138: Value of attribute =B3id=B2 for element =B3<= dt>=B2 > must begin with one of {A-Z,a-z} followed by zero or more of > {A-Z,a-z,0-9,-,_,:,.}. This is for
      Peter Gutmann (mirror) The brackets are not allowed in the 'id' attribute's value. With these issues corrected the site would be completely valid: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=3Dhttp://www.gnupg.org/(en)/misc/links.html My compliments! Some other issues i recognized at first sight: is only usefull (if ever ...) if it is used as early in the code as possible. It should be the very first child of 'body'. Ever preferable was to correctly set up the server by putting AddCharset utf-8 .html into the .htaccess file for the site. In the moment the Charset sent by the http:-header is contradicting to the Charset you wrote into the 'meta' elemnt. That may cause unpredictable results on different browsers. Werner uses entities for the German umlauts (=C4 =3D Ä) anyway. That is why the misconfiguration does not disturbe much at the moment in practice. Documentation for this: TD.frame-navb { /* ... */ font-size: x-small; } is far too small. Going two grades beyoned the users' browser preferences for "well readable" will render the navigational text unreadable in many cases. Additionally finding something on other people's website is one of the hardest tasks for a surfer. Don't make this even harder by making it less readable than the rest of the text! The GnuPG at the top of each page might be marked up as 'h1' ... Of course what you are doing here ist table abuse, but at least you don't bloat the code too much by this. Additionally I don't have a simple idea at the moment how to achieve the same effect without tables and I like it :-) I hope you are interested in my unasked proposals for enhancement. Gru=DF, Michi P.S.: For Werner: "Heimat" is not a good German translation for "home" (if meaning "homepage"). "Startseite" would be better understood. P.P.S.: Please include me in replies on this mail! I am not subscribed to gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org but Werner asked me to post this to the list. - --=20 Michael Nahrath, Hasestra=DFe 41, 31137 Hildesheim, T+F+AB: +49 [0]5121 51391= 9 PGP-ID: 0x9A4C704C Mobil: +49 [0]170 295595= 7 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.3.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQE97e2m19dRf5pMcEwRAiqjAKDUMXar4zGYXlyO48jDBTu5G0EjwQCeLxp3 GvIvZOvs+jvv4qbSFJgnfG8=3D =3DiLco -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Wed Dec 4 13:31:49 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:31:49 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear Webmaster, [I first sent this mail to Werner in German language, because according to the 'meta'-elements he is the 'Author' and 'Translator'. This is mainly a translation of the mail I sent to him yesterday] I like the new site. It's a bit surprising for a GNU project but not yet overloaded. While taking a look at the code ("who did they do this ..." ;-) my editor printed out an error report. Maybe you are interested. This report is for in special. > File "00003A38.html"; Line 20: Document type doesn't permit attribute > =B3align=B2 within element =B3
      =B2. By you declare to use 'XHTML 1.0 strict'. But this is not what you are doing. The site uses several attributes that are not contained in the 'strict' variant of XHTML 1.0. Rather use (according to your coding) > File "00003A38.html"; Line 20: Value of attribute =B3cellspacing=B2 for > element =B3
      =B2 must be a number or percent (for example =B350=B2 or =B350%=B2)= . > File "00003A38.html"; Line 25: Value of attribute =B3width=B2 for element > =B3=B2 must be a number or percent (for example =B350=B2 or =B350%=B2). > [repeated ...] You use the unit 'px' for lengths in XHTML attributes. That is wrong. That was the way you'd do it in CSS but XHTML length attributes are always in 'px' and therefor written without unit. is wrong whereas would be right. > File "00003A38.html"; Line 27: Document type doesn't permit attribute > =B3height=B2 within element =B3=B2. > [repeated ...] HTML4 and XHTML1 don't define the attribute 'hight' for the 'tr' element. Instead it may be used for 'td' and 'th': Its use is 'deprecated', but still allowed if you use the 'transitional' flavour of XHTML1. > File "Users:michi:Library:Preferences:iCab Preferences:iCab > Cache:g:00003A38.html"; Line 138: Value of attribute =B3id=B2 for element =B3<= dt>=B2 > must begin with one of {A-Z,a-z} followed by zero or more of > {A-Z,a-z,0-9,-,_,:,.}. This is for
      Peter Gutmann (mirror) The brackets are not allowed in the 'id' attribute's value. With these issues corrected the site would be completely valid: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=3Dhttp://www.gnupg.org/(en)/misc/links.html My compliments! Some other issues i recognized at first sight: is only usefull (if ever ...) if it is used as early in the code as possible. It should be the very first child of 'body'. Ever preferable was to correctly set up the server by putting AddCharset utf-8 .html into the .htaccess file for the site. In the moment the Charset sent by the http:-header is contradicting to the Charset you wrote into the 'meta' elemnt. That may cause unpredictable results on different browsers. Werner uses entities for the German umlauts (=C4 =3D Ä) anyway. That is why the misconfiguration does not disturbe much at the moment in practice. Documentation for this: TD.frame-navb { /* ... */ font-size: x-small; } is far too small. Going two grades beyoned the users' browser preferences for "well readable" will render the navigational text unreadable in many cases. Additionally finding something on other people's website is one of the hardest tasks for a surfer. Don't make this even harder by making it less readable than the rest of the text! The GnuPG at the top of each page might be marked up as 'h1' ... Of course what you are doing here ist table abuse, but at least you don't bloat the code too much by this. Additionally I don't have a simple idea at the moment how to achieve the same effect without tables and I like it :-) I hope you are interested in my unasked proposals for enhancement. Gru=DF, Michi P.S.: For Werner: "Heimat" is not a good German translation for "home" (if meaning "homepage"). "Startseite" would be better understood. - --=20 My complete key at -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.3.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQE97gPP19dRf5pMcEwRAuHWAKDfSXpuYnoIb2Tk4c/gw2UnDRIZsQCeKQ8V 4nFFhZTaXv+GJZtYJtTx97g=3D =3DDpOI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ndtt@ll.iac.es Wed Dec 4 15:16:39 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:16:39 +0000 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design References: Message-ID: <3DEE1C57.E7E48C5A@ll.iac.es> We're actually working in all that strict XHTML stuff, but we're very thanked to you for your appoints. The goal in the actual page is for the translation to can be started. Noel From wk@gnupg.org Wed Dec 4 15:16:23 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:16:23 +0100 Subject: [Melvin Hadasht ] links to nowhere: annoucement mails Message-ID: <87y975ke60.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> From: Melvin Hadasht To: webmaster@gnupg.org Hi, At the page http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/download/release_notes.html#news-2002-10-25 the different announcement mails links point to pages that do not exist As a side note, I like the new clean professional layout -- Melvin Hadasht -------------------- End of forwarded message -------------------- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Wed Dec 4 16:02:59 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:02:59 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design Message-ID: <20021204160259.68625.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Nahrath Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:57:16 +0100 To: Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design > I like the new site. It's a bit surprising for a GNU project but not yet > overloaded. I hope I haven't broken a tradition... > While taking a look at the code ("who did they do this ..." ;-) my editor > printed out an error report. Maybe you are interested. [snipped] I know, more or less, of all errors you reported. That's why pages don't show up beautiful "XHTML compliant" and "CSS compliant" logos.. :..-( But compatibility is one of my primary concern. I'll keep your very detailed report for future reference, when I fix all those bugs. I hope you'll be available for consults.. ;-) > > is only usefull (if ever ...) if it is used as early in the code as > possible. It should be the very first child of 'body'. I didn't know this... > Ever preferable was to correctly set up the server by putting > AddCharset utf-8 .html > into the .htaccess file for the site. We don't have Apache, rather Caudium (and, to be honest, I've never use it). > Werner uses entities for the German umlauts (Ä = Ä) anyway. It's not Werner who uses entities, but WML (http://www.thewml.org/) that translates them (see http://www.gnupg.org/index.wml). > The GnuPG at the top of > each page might be marked up as 'h1' ... I dont' use

      for that porpouse but for page title, like "The GNU Privacy Guard" in http://www.gnupg.org/. > Of course what you are doing here ist table abuse, but at least you don't > bloat the code too much by this. Additionally I don't have a simple idea at > the moment how to achieve the same effect without tables and I like it :-) If such a standard adhering person can forget about all those tables because he likes the site, it must mean that site looks pretty much cool. Thanks a lot!!! > I hope you are interested in my unasked proposals for enhancement. You're much more than welcome! -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Wed Dec 4 17:14:00 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 18:14:00 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: <20021204160259.68625.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: Lorenzo Cappelletti schrieb am 2002-12-04 17:02 Uhr: >> While taking a look at the code ("who did they do this ..." ;-) my edito= r >> printed out an error report. Maybe you are interested. > :..-( But compatibility is one of my primary concern. I guess none of my proposal would rise any compatibility problems, they'd rather avoid some. > I'll keep your > very detailed report for future reference, when I fix all those bugs. > I hope you'll be available for consults.. ;-) I couldn't resist (again ...) and just subscribed to this list. =20 >> >> is only usefull (if ever ...) if it is used as early in the code as >> possible. It should be the very first child of 'body'. >=20 > I didn't know this... Precisely spoken it should occure before the first non-US-ASCII character i= n the code. If you use=20 or GPG-Schl=FCssel it has to stand before those elements. At the moment it is overwritten by the server sending another Charset value anyway. You can see this for yourself if you use Mozoilla's "View Page Info". =20 >> Ever preferable was to correctly set up the server by putting >> AddCharset utf-8 .html >> into the .htaccess file for the site. >=20 > We don't have Apache, rather Caudium (and, to be honest, I've never use > it). There must be something similar. Maybe and will be of some general usefullness on these topics. =20 >> Werner uses entities for the German umlauts (=C4 =3D =C4) anyway. >=20 > It's not Werner who uses entities, but WML (http://www.thewml.org/) that > translates them (see http://www.gnupg.org/index.wml). I see. Werner's pieces are written in ISO-8859-1 Encoding and your processo= r does the encoding to entities. =20 >> The GnuPG at the top of >> each page might be marked up as 'h1' ... >=20 > I dont' use

      for that porpouse but for page title, like "The GNU > Privacy Guard" in http://www.gnupg.org/. I'd mark up "GnuPG" as 'h1' and "The GNU Privacy Guard" as 'h2' (CSS would make the rendering the same it is now), but this is a matter of personal taste ... =20 Two more things: =20 1. I took a glimpse to the list archive and saw the question about the 'lang' attribute in XHTML. It is _completely_ independent to all character coding issues. Today graphical browsers hardly make any use of it (the only real world application I am aware of is the rendering of the 'q' element according to by some not so wide spread browsers like iCab). Aural browsers (reading websites) might use it to find the correct pronounciation for a site, but I am not shure if there are any that do. is the recommended documentation. 2. Using unordered lists for the navigation is a very good thing to do. But currently their rendering is completely different in Internet Explorer 5.2.2 and Mozilla 1.3a (both on MacOS X). I dealt with this issue some time ago and wrote a short demonstration page: Greeting, Michi From l.cappelletti@mail.com Thu Dec 5 09:47:42 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:47:42 +0100 Subject: links to nowhere: annoucement mails Message-ID: <20021205094742.19885.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:16:23 +0100 To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org Subject: [Melvin Hadasht ] links to nowhere: annoucement mails > Hi, > > At the page > http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/download/release_notes.html#news-2002-10-25 > > the different announcement mails links point to pages that do not exist I already fixed this bug. Please, Werner, just checkout latest download/release_notes_list.wml and rebuild download/release_notes.wml cd download cvs up release_notes_list.wml wml release_notes_list.wml > As a side note, I like the new clean professional layout Many thanks! I hope we can improve it more and more. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Thu Dec 5 17:18:11 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:18:11 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! Message-ID: Just read the FAQ (yes, sometimes it happens :-) The FAQ locally installed at /usr/local/share/gnupg/faq.html contains several links to the www.gnupg.org website. At least there are and . Now these URLs are 404. Please fix this! If it should be realy impossible to keep the old URL intact there needs to be at least serverside redirections to the new resources. And if even that is impossible there should be more descriptive sites on these URLs than the current 404 message. Second: Is it really neccesary to have souch strange URLs containing brackets? Nobody uses this, there will be a lot of mistakes from not using what users expect (you know Nielsen about this ...). had much better usability than . I'd prefer the simple and intuitive system Debian use: triggers content negotiation upon the language set in the browser (it is also the adress that should be linked to). forces the english version. forces the german version etc. mainly deals with Apache but is good for the basics as well. And something general about "moving" or "reorganizing" content away from its original location: Greeting, Michi From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Dec 6 09:50:44 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:50:44 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! Message-ID: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Nahrath Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:18:11 +0100 To: "gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org" Subject: Don't break existing links! > Just read the FAQ (yes, sometimes it happens :-) > > The FAQ locally installed at /usr/local/share/gnupg/faq.html contains > several links to the www.gnupg.org website. I tried to get in contact with FAQ author by writing to faq@gnupg.org, but he never replied. > If it should be realy impossible to keep the old URL intact there needs to > be at least serverside redirections to the new resources. When I spoke with Werner about my ideas on new site, he didn't argue against reorganizing the whole site, thus I moved files where I wanted to. > And if even that is impossible there should be more descriptive sites on > these URLs than the current 404 message. I know of 3 methods for redirection: 1. symbolic links 2. meta tag time-out redirection 3. web server configuration Number 1 is very easy I'd prefer number two, because it also tells users that link has actually changed and warns them they should update their bookmark. Werner says that number 2 is not portable across mirrors. Number 3 is server dependent. What do you think is the best? > Second: > Is it really neccesary to have souch strange URLs containing brackets? > Nobody uses this, there will be a lot of mistakes from not using what users > expect (you know Nielsen about this ...). I totally agree with you, but Werner's running Caudium at the moment. He told me once he's perplexed to keep on running that web server. To me, I'm sure Caudium has got its own methods for doing what Apache does, but I don't have time right now to study its documentation. > And something general about "moving" or "reorganizing" content away from its > original location: > You're full of good links, aren't you? Old site was a 1-level deep framework where all files resided in root directory. I know moving URLs around is a very bad practice, but I stronly believe that site needed a reorganization. PS: I cannot do anything till tonight. AArggghh! -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Dec 6 12:35:05 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:35:05 +0100 Subject: Patches? Message-ID: <20021206123505.72126.qmail@mail.com> Hi all, I was wondering if Michael and all people who want to contribute to GnuPG's site are available for sending patches to this ML. If you can find some spare time, it'd be possible to get bugs fixed quicker. Even though gnupg.org uses WML now, it isn't so difficult to pick up how it works. Just check site out from CVS repository (see http://www.gnupg.org/README.cvs) and start hanging around share/ (mostly CSS style sheets) and lib/ directories, looking for *.wml files. For the latter, page.wml is a good point to start from. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From wk@gnupg.org Fri Dec 6 12:59:52 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:59:52 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: <20021204160259.68625.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:02:59 +0100") References: <20021204160259.68625.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87r8cvfgl3.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:02:59 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > It's not Werner who uses entities, but WML (http://www.thewml.org/) that > translates them (see http://www.gnupg.org/index.wml). Actually it is really me. I was not sure how we wanted to handle the charset issue, so I used the ERs. >> Of course what you are doing here ist table abuse, but at least you don't >> bloat the code too much by this. Additionally I don't have a simple idea at >> the moment how to achieve the same effect without tables and I like it :-) > If such a standard adhering person can forget about all those tables A feature I which HTML had, is the definition of a navigation bar tag, so a browser can render it in any way it (or the user) likes. This would make thinks much easier for the user because of a consistent look+feel and it would also be better for search engines. Shalom-Salam, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Fri Dec 6 13:12:40 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:12:40 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:50:44 +0100") References: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87of7zffzr.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:50:44 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > 2. meta tag time-out redirection > 3. web server configuration [..] > Werner says that number 2 is not portable across mirrors. Did I? It should be okay. > Number 3 is server dependent. Reconsidering this, it seems not a bad idea than I thought. If an URL was given to a user, it is very unlikely that he first looks up a mirror. Afaik, a browser can detect a premanent server based redirection and offer to update the bookmarks. We don't do any automatic mirroring so we actually might want to take this solution. >> Is it really neccesary to have souch strange URLs containing brackets? >> Nobody uses this, there will be a lot of mistakes from not using what users >> expect (you know Nielsen about this ...). > I totally agree with you, but Werner's running Caudium at the moment. He told me once he's perplexed to I know that this looks strange. Afaik, Caudium uses this for language caching purposes when it is not configured to use cookies. I guess this requires some Caudium hacking. I am running for years Boa on a small website and had no problems except that it does not support virtual servers. This has now changed and I am running now some sites with virtual boa servers (e.g. www.ofdc.de). Boa is very minimalistic and thus easy to configure. We do only have staic pages and thus it might make sense to switch to it. There is no content-negotiation yet. The most likely change is that we are going to use another machine for www.gnupg.org running Apache. Salam-Shalom, Werner From pauliuc@gmx.net Fri Dec 6 14:26:02 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 06 Dec 2002 16:26:02 +0200 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> References: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <1039179416.2250.6.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-9UKecK19S5LCR1uIZDZy Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Vi, 2002-12-06 at 11:50, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: > I know of 3 methods for redirection: >=20 > 1. symbolic links As you said, it has one big minus - everybody will think that is the same page. When it isn't. If you'd use some server-side scripting it might be one solution to make two includes: first, one with an anouncement like "the new page is at..." and second the actual page. > 2. meta tag time-out redirection It isn't portable as long as you give the full URL "http://www.gnupg.org/path/to/your/file.html". If you use something like "./new/directory/file.html" or "../../directory/file.html" should work well with mirrors as well. > 3. web server configuration This is a no IMHO as you have such a clean code right now and tend to follow the standards meaning portability. --=-9UKecK19S5LCR1uIZDZy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA98J6YEM28XWGBdX8RAmE5AKDPEkkUIS7n64DSAtKL1fB00WvdfgCfYQJv aXYwXNYf4NGQlMe5qMgYYmo= =CQtm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-9UKecK19S5LCR1uIZDZy-- From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Fri Dec 6 14:35:05 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:35:05 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: <87r8cvfgl3.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: Werner Koch schrieb am 2002-12-06 13:59 Uhr: > A feature I which HTML had, is the definition of a navigation > bar tag, so a browser can render it in any way it (or the user) > likes. =20 Actually something like it exists since HTML2. Only Browser support for it has been rather bad before Mozilla 1.1 and Opera=A07. for the idea much but a bit outdated about curren= t browsers > This would make thinks much easier for the user because of a > consistent look+feel and it would also be better for search engines. Unfortunately we at current browser support we can't rely on it. But adding it would shurely be a worthwile enhancement for the website. Greeting, Michi From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Fri Dec 6 14:57:24 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:57:24 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: Lorenzo Cappelletti schrieb am 2002-12-06 10:50 Uhr: >> The FAQ locally installed at /usr/local/share/gnupg/faq.html contains >> several links to the www.gnupg.org website. > > I tried to get in contact with FAQ author by writing to faq@gnupg.org, > but he never replied. That will not help anymore. Invalidating broke every single GPG installation in the world. You have to fix it on the server. No way out! How many years will it take until all current installations will be replaced by at least GPG 1.3.2? >> If it should be realy impossible to keep the old URL intact there needs to >> be at least serverside redirections to the new resources. > > When I spoke with Werner about my ideas on new site, he didn't argue > against reorganizing the whole site, thus I moved files where I wanted > to. You are the web-designer so you have to know better. Surgon: "I spoke with the patient before the operation and he didn't argue against moving his ears to the abdomen" ;-) "Designing the web" does not only mean to make websites pretty but much more to keep their functionality. >> And if even that is impossible there should be more descriptive sites on >> these URLs than the current 404 message. > > I know of 3 methods for redirection: > > 1. symbolic links > 2. meta tag time-out redirection > 3. web server configuration > > Number 1 is very easy .. and far the worst. It would lead to have the same resources at multiple URLs. This is very bad in terms of cachibility and searrch engine success. It would irritate the users. Additionally it would quite shurely break your system of language triggered content negotiation. > I'd prefer number two, because it also tells users that link has > actually changed and warns them they should update their bookmark. That one is very bad as well. By principle you can't do redirections by because it doesn't get read before the page is already loaded. Some people try This is a big mistake too. Search engins would still get a "HTTP/1.1 200 OK" for the page and will never forget it. If there is a redirection time set, users will either not recognize it at all (I usually open Links in a background-Tab of my browser and start to read them a while later) or the page will vanish at some uncontrollable amount of time when they started reading the message. > Werner says that number 2 is not portable across mirrors. Mirroring will be a problem in any case if your content negotiation is based on Caudium features ... > Number 3 is server dependent. The only good solution (for a bad problem). Clients have to know, that the old site does no more exist. There is a special response code to inform about this in http: Have a look at and try in comparison. That is what it has to look like. The server has to send a "301 (Removed Permanently)". (I don't understand why this valuable service fails to work for ). > What do you think is the best? 1 and 2 are completely unadequate. 3 is the way to go. There was another short hand solution. Stil bad but better than 1 or 2: Create a static page ( and for each other URL of the old page) that informs the users of the reorganisation and links to the new locations. Include I had to do this at because I have no rights to trigger real redirections on that server. In any case the 404 (Page not found) page should be much more informative. Read to get the idea. >> Second: >> Is it really neccesary to have souch strange URLs containing brackets? >> Nobody uses this, there will be a lot of mistakes from not using what users >> expect (you know Nielsen about this ...). > > I totally agree with you, but Werner's running Caudium > at the moment. > He told me once he's perplexed to keep on running that web server. ^^^^^^^^^ Sorry, I don't understand what you are meaning. Are you shure that "perplexed" is the right word? > To me, I'm sure Caudium has got its own methods for doing what Apache > does, but I don't have time right now to study its documentation. If you stay with Caudium somebody will have to do. Isn't there any other server (running the Apache we all know so well) that could host the website? The work to configure it for Apache has to be done anyway if mirroring intended. >> And something general about "moving" or "reorganizing" content away from its >> original location: >> > > You're full of good links, aren't you? They didn't come by themselves ;-) > Old site was a 1-level deep framework where all files resided in root > directory. I know moving URLs around is a very bad practice, but I > stronly believe that site needed a reorganization. I see this and agree. Doing it the Apache way (like Debian) would simply have meant RedirectPermanent /docs.html http://www.gnupg.org/docs/ and all content negotiation would happen by the filename suffixes. > PS: I cannot do anything till tonight. AArggghh! Please excuse me for sounding a bit harsh. Writing English is rather easy if it is about technics but expressing suggestions in a polite and gentle way is much harder with the dictonary in one's left hand. Greeting, Michi From pauliuc@gmx.net Fri Dec 6 15:37:33 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 06 Dec 2002 17:37:33 +0200 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <87of7zffzr.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> References: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> <87of7zffzr.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <1039186299.2188.12.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-JMRqZwY6rcoqQfxyWyao Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Vi, 2002-12-06 at 15:12, Werner Koch wrote: > I know that this looks strange. Afaik, Caudium uses this for language > caching purposes when it is not configured to use cookies. I guess > this requires some Caudium hacking. I am running for years Boa on a > small website and had no problems except that it does not support > virtual servers. This has now changed and I am running now some sites > with virtual boa servers (e.g. www.ofdc.de). Boa is very minimalistic > and thus easy to configure. We do only have staic pages and thus it > might make sense to switch to it. There is no content-negotiation > yet. >=20 > The most likely change is that we are going to use another machine for > www.gnupg.org running Apache. The Linux kernel has a minimalistic web server that delivers only static pages. And, as it is in the kernel, it goes really fast and with little overhead. I know some examples where the static pages are delivered by this web server and the dynamic pages (the ones with scripts) are forwarded to apache to interpret them. --=-JMRqZwY6rcoqQfxyWyao Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA98Ll7EM28XWGBdX8RAr4sAKCgLALdJZ2ddzVuDVwwSBtjviDaFwCgmuW9 0gR4dAD+WHQ/OWFfD32h0p0= =ePH6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-JMRqZwY6rcoqQfxyWyao-- From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Fri Dec 6 15:38:08 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:38:08 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <1039179416.2250.6.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: George Pauliuc schrieb am 2002-12-06 15:26 Uhr: > On Vi, 2002-12-06 at 11:50, Lorenzo Cappelletti wrote: >> I know of 3 methods for redirection: >> >> 1. symbolic links > > As you said, it has one big minus - everybody will think that is the > same page. When it isn't. > If you'd use some server-side scripting it > might be one solution to make two includes: first, one with an > anouncement like "the new page is at..." and second the actual page. There is no special announcement to the user neccesary. Sending http: error code 301 _is_ the announcement to the UserAgent. No need to bother the user with this. "Don't mention the mechanics!" But bringing up server side scripting can lead to another recommendable solution. Some scripting languages are able to send fully correct HTTP-headers too. If you have cgi: #!/usr/bin/perl print "Status: 301 Moved Permanently\n"; print "Location: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/"; print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; # The following normaly is never seen if Browsers understand HTTP correctly print "Page has mooved\n"; print "

      New location: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation\n"; Or #!/bin/sh echo 'Status: 301 Moved Permanently' echo 'Location: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/' echo 'Content-type: text/html' echo echo Page has mooved echo

      New location: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation The server configuration problem in both cases would be to make it parse cgi for the URL If you have PHP it would be something like Page has mooved'; echo '

      New location: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation' ?> Again in Apache this could be easyly activated for /docs.html by a line in the .htaccess file AddType application/x-httpd-php .html [Please don't think I understand anything about perl and shell scripting! I made these up by a fiend's help once. That's all I have.] >> 2. meta tag time-out redirection > > It isn't portable as long as you give the full URL > "http://www.gnupg.org/path/to/your/file.html". If you use something > like "./new/directory/file.html" or "../../directory/file.html" should > work well with mirrors as well. I fear you can't do this. Keep in mind that the is nothing but a second class trial to give the Browser information that belongs to the HTTP Header after you have missed to do it in the right place! At least you are bound to keep keep HTTP specs for its content. Relative adressing is not known there. Maybe Browsers would expand the relative URL to a fully qualified one if they get it via but I am not shure about this. >> 3. web server configuration > > This is a no IMHO as you have such a clean code right now and tend to > follow the standards meaning portability. IIUC negotiating References: Message-ID: <1039191667.2188.43.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-q4i7Zy7hT/OPJb1EEKxi Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Vi, 2002-12-06 at 16:57, Michael Nahrath wrote: > Isn't there any other server (running the Apache we all know so well) tha= t > could host the website? >=20 > The work to configure it for Apache has to be done anyway if mirroring > intended. Apache is the MOST used web server. That's about it. I don't say it's bad. But certainly it is not the universal solution. Bottom line I'm against everything that says "go this way because I know it" or "because everybody uses it". This is how a certain software company got big. But the results are less than impressive. Besides, this is supposed to be a "proffesional" team and not a bunch of people whining "I don't have time for that I do run a real business". Caudium, boa, or the web server offered by the Linux kernel are good enough so far. Finally, get a milder tone when answering mails, please. --=-q4i7Zy7hT/OPJb1EEKxi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA98M5zEM28XWGBdX8RAgEtAJ9dfvB1KxRAGiM+ht1fWzXWRBinmgCgo2wo hJ+h2ljIn23mkI0VQNx2jlw= =TmDk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-q4i7Zy7hT/OPJb1EEKxi-- From l.cappelletti@mail.com Fri Dec 6 16:19:07 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:19:07 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design Message-ID: <20021206161907.53011.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Nahrath Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:35:05 +0100 To: "gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org" Subject: Re: www.gnupg.org - new design > But adding it would shurely be a worthwile enhancement for the website. I think I won't find any difficulties to add such a feature... after I fixed borken links! ;-) -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From pauliuc@gmx.net Fri Dec 6 17:04:27 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 06 Dec 2002 19:04:27 +0200 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1039194267.2188.67.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-+ZfprXw36MzKfyZaAgzk Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Vi, 2002-12-06 at 17:38, Michael Nahrath wrote: > There is no special announcement to the user neccesary. > Sending http: error code 301 _is_ the announcement to the UserAgent. The UA means in common terms browser. And browsers are known not to use all standards and to badly implement the standars they support. Are you sure this is a valid option? Or just another way to puzzle the poor visitor? > No need to bother the user with this. "Don't mention the mechanics!" Telling the visitor in plain language "this is the link you should use from now on" has nothing to do with mecanics. And avoids lots of trouble. > Some scripting languages are able to send fully correct HTTP-headers too. Wrong. All scripting languages that have some connection with the web and can send headers CAN do that. It's easy: the header is something you make (with the help of the script) following what's written in a RFC or other standard. =20 > [Please don't think I understand anything about perl and shell scripting! > I made these up by a fiend's help once. That's all I have.] I do understand that ;-) > > It isn't portable as long as you give the full URL > > "http://www.gnupg.org/path/to/your/file.html". If you use something > > like "./new/directory/file.html" or "../../directory/file.html" should > > work well with mirrors as well. > I fear you can't do this. Examples please. As long as the browser understands the path, it should work. Don't remember seeing anything against that in the documents I have. > Maybe Browsers would expand the relative URL to a fully qualified one if > they get it via but I am not shure about this. Plase, please, make up your mind. You say "you can't" and three paragraphs below you say "I'm not sure". Shouldn't all the argument be rephrased like "I don't know for sure but I feel this won't work because..." - all in just one paragraph? > > This is a no IMHO as you have such a clean code right now and tend to > > follow the standards meaning portability. > IIUC negotiating http://www.gnupg.org/(de)/documentation/index.html is a Caudium only > "feature". That will make portability to other servers a problem anyway. So... let me think. I say something about standards, code cleanliness (is there such a word in English?) and portability. You answer with "is a Caudium only feature". What is the logic of your answer? --=-+ZfprXw36MzKfyZaAgzk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA98NibEM28XWGBdX8RAoCnAJ9mfUOGEY/nroOVkG4Wu4Xq8qys4wCfZ7qA Pem/FtdkSyKndBgchBJNHRc= =Rsok -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-+ZfprXw36MzKfyZaAgzk-- From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Fri Dec 6 18:17:13 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:17:13 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <1039194267.2188.67.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: George Pauliuc schrieb am 2002-12-06 18:04 Uhr: > On Vi, 2002-12-06 at 17:38, Michael Nahrath wrote: >> There is no special announcement to the user neccesary. >> Sending http: error code 301 _is_ the announcement to the UserAgent. > > The UA means in common terms browser. And browsers are known not to use > all standards and to badly implement the standars they support. Are you > sure this is a valid option? Quite shure. Means: "I have tested with some dozends of differen browsers on several platforms over the last three years repeatedly and have never seen any problems with it." I have postet the link to my own homepage as an example. I guess I'd know if it wouldn't work reliably. My server's logfiles showed that there was one defect spider in the end of 2000 that didn't get it right. I have not seen it again since. >> No need to bother the user with this. "Don't mention the mechanics!" > > Telling the visitor in plain language "this is the link you should use > from now on" has nothing to do with mecanics. And avoids lots of > trouble. Telling him what to do _is_ trouble. Giving him the content he wanted to get directly is what he expects and what he should get. >> Some scripting languages are able to send fully correct HTTP-headers too. > > Wrong. All scripting languages that have some connection with the web > and can send headers CAN do that. I can't see the contradiction in those statements ... >> Maybe Browsers would expand the relative URL to a fully qualified one if >> they get it via but I am not shure about this. > > Plase, please, make up your mind. You say "you can't" and three > paragraphs below you say "I'm not sure". OK, you need it more precicely: says that webservers may gather this information. AFAIK no web server does scan each file it delivers for additional headers provided by the 'meta' element. Some browsers do interpret them on their own. This is not standard behaviour and should not been relied upon. If they expand relative paths upon this, it is even less standard behaviour. Can you be shure that they will continue to behave (according to the words of the specs: wrong) like this in the future? Who can? >> IIUC negotiating > http://www.gnupg.org/(de)/documentation/index.html is a Caudium only >> "feature". That will make portability to other servers a problem anyway. > > So... let me think. > > I say something about standards, code cleanliness (is there such a word > in English?) and portability. You answer with "is a Caudium only > feature". What is the logic of your answer? Sorry, my mistake. I really should not use irony on international lists. I shurely don't see this kind of URL rewriting as a positive "feature". Instead I call it a "bug" as it breaks with common practice of dealing with URL (since it comes to the user this _is_ a valid argument), makes maintaining the site and linking to the pages harder and raises a problem for portability. Greeting, Michi From wk@gnupg.org Fri Dec 6 20:17:19 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:17:19 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: (Michael Nahrath's message of "Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:35:05 +0100") References: Message-ID: <8765u6gawg.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:35:05 +0100, Michael Nahrath said: > for the idea > much but a bit outdated > about current Interesting, it is similar to what I had in mind. Whats missing is a standard name for a sitemap, so that one would be able to tell the browser the current location with in the tree. I have used the link/made attribute for years because it is in the GNU guidelines but never looked it really up. Shalom-Salam, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Fri Dec 6 20:20:34 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:20:34 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <1039186299.2188.12.camel@redbull.raider.org> (George Pauliuc's message of "06 Dec 2002 17:37:33 +0200") References: <20021206095044.85866.qmail@mail.com> <87of7zffzr.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> <1039186299.2188.12.camel@redbull.raider.org> Message-ID: <873cpagar1.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On 06 Dec 2002 17:37:33 +0200, George Pauliuc said: > The Linux kernel has a minimalistic web server that delivers only static > pages. And, as it is in the kernel, it goes really fast and with little That beast is a Bad Thing (tm). You don't need an OS if you run all applications within the OS kernel. The worst software design I have ever seen and done only to show that it is faster than some other servers - ugly, ugly, predefined TCP packets and such things. Waht a waste of time. Salam-Shalom, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Fri Dec 6 20:44:59 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:44:59 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: (Michael Nahrath's message of "Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:57:24 +0100") References: Message-ID: <87y972ev1w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:57:24 +0100, Michael Nahrath said: > Mirroring will be a problem in any case if your content negotiation is based > on Caudium features ... No it is not. It is exactly the same as with aPache. Caudium just changes the links on the fly for internal purposes. When it runs Apache woul won't get the extra path element. >> Number 3 is server dependent. > The only good solution (for a bad problem). > Clients have to know, that the old site does no more exist. > There is a special response code to inform about this in http: > Have a look at > th.de%2Fmichael%2F&verbose=on> and try in > comparison. That is what it has to look like. > The server has to send a "301 (Removed Permanently)". I loaded the redirecion module and entered redirects for exact /gnupg.html http://www.gnupg.org/ exact /gpa.html http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpa/ exact /gpgme.html http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpgme/ It works without problems. We just need to compile such a list. Shalom-Salam, Werner From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Fri Dec 6 22:14:22 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:14:22 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <87y972ev1w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: Werner Koch schrieb am 2002-12-06 21:44 Uhr: > I loaded the redirecion module and entered redirects for > > exact /gnupg.html http://www.gnupg.org/ > exact /gpa.html http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpa/ > exact /gpgme.html http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpgme/ > > It works without problems. Good to hear! Works pretty well. At the moment it sends "HTTP/1.0 302 Temporary Relocation" (testet at ). May you please look for the configuration to answer with "301 Redirected Permanently" which was more correct in this case? Greeting, Michi From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Fri Dec 6 22:21:23 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:21:23 +0100 Subject: www.gnupg.org - new design In-Reply-To: <8765u6gawg.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: Werner Koch schrieb am 2002-12-06 21:17 Uhr: >> for the idea >> much but a bit outdated >> about current > > Interesting, it is similar to what I had in mind. Whats missing is a > standard name for a sitemap, so that one would be able to tell the > browser the current location with in the tree. Dont you mean one of those? : | Contents | Refers to a document serving as a table of contents. Some user agents | also support the synonym ToC (from "Table of Contents"). | Index | Refers to a document providing an index for the current document. Additionally you are free to invent as many link types as you like. The list gives only examples. > I have used the link/made attribute for years because it is in the GNU > guidelines but never looked it really up. Try in Mozilla's Menu: "View" -> "Show/Hide" -> "Site Navigation Bar" -> "[x] Show Only As Needed" Greeting, Michi From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sat Dec 7 00:26:24 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:26:24 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <87y972ev1w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>; from wk@gnupg.org on Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 09:44:59PM +0100 References: <87y972ev1w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <20021207012624.A8726@quark> On Fri Dec 06 at 21:44 +0100, Werner Koch wrote: > I loaded the redirecion module and entered redirects for > > exact /gnupg.html http://www.gnupg.org/ > exact /gpa.html http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpa/ > exact /gpgme.html http://www.gnupg.org/related_software/gpgme/ Sgrunt! I just finished to do a bit of WML coding for generating all the files in the way Michael suggest, when I read this message. Ok, never mind, we could have two methods availble, now. > It works without problems. We just need to compile such a list. I did this: afsmirrors root/index backend related_software/index buglist documentation/bts credits miscthanks crypto-hard misc/links crypto-soft misc/links crypto misc/links cvs-access download/cvs_access docs-misc documentation/index docs-mls documentation/mailing-lists docs documentation/index download download/index faq documentationfaqs frontends related_software/frontends gnupg-sigkey root/signature_key gnupg root/index gpa-icons related_software/gpa/icons gpa-snapshots related_software/gpa/screenshots gpa related_software/gpa/index gpgman documentation/manpage gpgme related_software/gpgme/index links misc/links mirrors download/mirrors others misc/links tls related_software/libraries tools related_software/tools whatsnew root/news There are also few links which no longer exist. How do we have to handle them? -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sat Dec 7 00:30:36 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:30:36 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Broken link Message-ID: <20021207013036.B8726@quark> Where should we put a link to Aegypten? ----- Forwarded message from Jens Rantil ----- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:26:19 +0100 From: Jens Rantil Subject: Broken link X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.5claws156 (GTK+ 1.2.10; ) Organization: Outstream Hi there, Just wanted to tell you that the link "Aegypten" on the front page of www.gnupg.org pointing at "http://www.gnupg.org/aegypten/index.en.html" was broken. Perhaps you could fix it when you've got the time =) /Jens Rantil ----- End forwarded message ----- -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Sat Dec 7 00:32:37 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:32:37 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Forbidden! Message-ID: <20021207013237.C8726@quark> ----- Forwarded message from "Maxim V. Kryzhny" ----- Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:36:02 +0200 From: "Maxim V. Kryzhny" Subject: Forbidden! X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) hi click 2 http://www.interlog.com/~rguerra/www/ at http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/sites.html => == Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~rguerra/www/ on this server. == wbr, MKV frm MyHome _mailto:kry@mg.dp.ua_ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Sat Dec 7 04:25:32 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 05:25:32 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Forbidden! In-Reply-To: <20021207013237.C8726@quark> Message-ID: Lorenzo Cappelletti schrieb am 2002-12-07 01:32 Uhr: > click 2 http://www.interlog.com/~rguerra/www/ at > http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/sites.html => > > == > Forbidden > > You don't have permission to access /~rguerra/www/ on this server. > == I don't know the original site. is the only current site of "rguerra" i could find. BTW: What is the intended difference betwheen "Documentation -> Sites" and "Misc -> Links" in the navigation bar? Greeting, Michi From pauliuc@gmx.net Sun Dec 8 15:13:14 2002 From: pauliuc@gmx.net (George Pauliuc) Date: 08 Dec 2002 17:13:14 +0200 Subject: Romanian file Message-ID: <1039257724.2198.6.camel@redbull.raider.org> --=-TeGJpY00YFiOx+pAMV9H Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Lorenzo, This is my file. I encoded it Latin2. Probably next time I'll use Unicode. But, as I've seen, the whole file is single-byte encoded. I also added some comments related to the content. See if this works well. George --=-TeGJpY00YFiOx+pAMV9H Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 'See search.keyserver.net for my signing key' iD8DBQA98dB8EM28XWGBdX8RAulTAJ9i4O9pNTVdnhQ33Ncf1Q2ZBLQxzwCdHp7g dGNMiLo6t8gmeTYQENcQDws= =yQyU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-TeGJpY00YFiOx+pAMV9H-- From wk@gnupg.org Sat Dec 7 07:57:51 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:57:51 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <20021207012624.A8726@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:26:24 +0100") References: <87y972ev1w.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> <20021207012624.A8726@quark> Message-ID: <8765u62rcw.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> > tools related_software/tools > whatsnew root/news I'll add them to the list as soon as I have figured (or patched) how to send permanent redirections. > There are also few links which no longer exist. How do we have to > handle them? You rfc2440 etc. - I think we can forget about this and assume that the users are smart enough to look elsewhere. Salam-Shalom, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Sat Dec 7 08:01:20 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:01:20 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Forbidden! In-Reply-To: <20021207013237.C8726@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:32:37 +0100") References: <20021207013237.C8726@quark> Message-ID: <871y4u2r73.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Hi! I have acouple of other brken links. I'll send them to this list. Shalom-Salam, Werner From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Sun Dec 8 18:28:59 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:28:59 +0100 Subject: Don't break existing links! In-Reply-To: <8765u62rcw.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: Werner Koch schrieb am 2002-12-07 08:57 Uhr: > I'll add them to the list as soon as I have figured (or patched) how > to send permanent redirections. IMO more accute: What is wrong with the server? I still get a=20 "the connection was refused when attempting to caontact www.gnupg.org" Same for "lists.gnupg.org" and "www.gnupg.de" =20 >> There are also few links which no longer exist. How do we have to >> handle them? >=20 > You rfc2440 etc. - Why not take for the link instead? > I think we can forget about this and assume that > the users are smart enough to look elsewhere. But then you should at least have a realy informative 404 page that contain= s apologize for gone pages, some help for the users ("maybe you mistyped=A0..."= ) and all the navigational links to the rest of the existing pages. Those give good example: Greeting, Michi From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Dec 9 07:29:36 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:29:36 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Forbidden! Message-ID: <20021209072943.68961.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Nahrath Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 05:25:32 +0100 To: "gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org" Subject: Re: (fwd) Forbidden! > BTW: What is the intended difference betwheen "Documentation -> Sites" and As the first paragraph explains: This page shows a list of web sites which are somehow related to GnuPG. > "Misc -> Links" in the navigation bar? Here it is a non-comprehensive list of sites and projects (both software and hardware) about cryptography. -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From l.cappelletti@mail.com Mon Dec 9 07:31:29 2002 From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:31:29 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Forbidden! Message-ID: <20021209073129.71142.qmail@mail.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Werner Koch Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:01:20 +0100 To: GPG Web Subject: Re: (fwd) Forbidden! > I have acouple of other brken links. I'll send them to this list. I think a BTS for the web site is ever more required while time goes by... -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup One click access to the Top Search Engines http://www.exactsearchbar.com/mailcom From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 9 12:19:44 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:19:44 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Broken link In-Reply-To: <20021207013036.B8726@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of "Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:30:36 +0100") References: <20021207013036.B8726@quark> Message-ID: <871y4ro04f.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> > Where should we put a link to Aegypten? We already noted it in the start page: Project Aegypten provides Sphinx-Clients (Mutt, KMail, ...) compatible to S/MIME within a GnuPG framework. There should of course be a page: roadmap/development plans, where a link to Aegypten would fit. Well, I have to write this page first ;-) From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 9 12:20:49 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:20:49 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Forbidden! In-Reply-To: <20021209073129.71142.qmail@mail.com> ("Lorenzo Cappelletti"'s message of "Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:31:29 +0100") References: <20021209073129.71142.qmail@mail.com> Message-ID: <87y96zmli6.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:31:29 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said: > I think a BTS for the web site is ever more required while time goes > by... Okay, I am working towards it. From wk@gnupg.org Mon Dec 9 18:14:03 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:14:03 +0100 Subject: Starting with gnats Message-ID: <87ptsbm55g.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Hi! I have setup GNATS as http://bugs.gnupg.org - there is a category "gpgweb" for our use. Submitting a bug report via the web interface is currently not possible, so you have to use the send-pr utility (apt-get install gnats-user). Here is a template file, you might want to use: ============= SEND-PR: Note that the Synopsis field is mandatory. The Subject (for SEND-PR: the mail) will be made the same as Synopsis unless explicitly SEND-PR: changed. SEND-PR: SEND-PR: Choose from the following categories: SEND-PR: SEND-PR: pending trash gnupg libgcrypt libksba gpa SEND-PR: gpgweb SEND-PR: To: bug-any@gnupg.org Subject: From: my@address X-send-pr-version: 4.0-beta1 X-GNATS-Notify: >Submitter-Id: >Originator: >Synopsis: <(one line)> >Confidential: <[ yes | no ] (one line)> >Severity: <[ critical | serious | non-critical ] (one line)> >Priority: <[ high | medium | low ] (one line)> >Category: gpgweb >Class: <[ sw-bug | doc-bug | support | change-request | mistaken | duplicate ] (one line)> >Environment: >Description: >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: ========================= You have to enable submittin a reporting by mail using these entries in /etc/gnats/send-pr.conf: ====================== # -*-sh-*- # This is the configuration file for send-pr. # It is read by the send-pr script each time it is executed. You can customize # various send-pr variables here instead of editting send-pr directly. You # must at least uncomment the ORGANIZATION. variable value and set it to some # reasonable value. # Id of the submitting organization #DEFAULT_ORGANIZATION=fill_some_value_here # The site *receiving* the bug reports #GNATS_SITE=${GNATS_SITE:-the_site} GNATS_SITE=gnupg.org MAILPROG="mail bug-any@gnupg.org" TEMPLATE="/etc/gnats/templ-gnupg.org" ====================== I still have to setup a policy on how to setup user accounts for editing bugs. Salam-Shalom, Werner From ndtt@ll.iac.es Mon Dec 9 19:07:47 2002 From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:07:47 +0000 Subject: Starting with gnats References: <87ptsbm55g.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <3DF4EA03.45569FCD@ll.iac.es> > MAILPROG="mail bug-any@gnupg.org" Is possible to use directly the bug-any@gnupg.org address, provided one uses the format you explained? Remember that there are windows users (without the mail command or anything like it), or even people whose only one mail acess is via web. Noel From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Mon Dec 9 23:29:32 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:29:32 +0100 Subject: Fixed bugs from Michael Message-ID: <20021210002932.C274@quark> and tomorrow I'm going to fix bugs reported by Werner. You can see results at http://preview.gnupg.org/ for the moment. (hope Werner won't mind if I rebuilt site there for a while). -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From L.Cappelletti@mail.com Tue Dec 10 21:51:06 2002 From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:51:06 +0100 Subject: Starting with gnats In-Reply-To: <87ptsbm55g.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>; from wk@gnupg.org on Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 07:14:03PM +0100 References: <87ptsbm55g.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: <20021210225106.B1936@quark> On Mon Dec 09 at 19:14 +0100, Werner Koch wrote: > I have setup GNATS as http://bugs.gnupg.org - there is a category > "gpgweb" for our use. Submitting a bug report via the web interface > is currently not possible, so you have to use the send-pr > utility (apt-get install gnats-user). Here is a template file, you I saw that there also a daemon called gnatsd which (X)Emacs makes use of. Are you going to set it up, too? I'd much appreciated it. -- email: L.Cappelletti@mail.com Jabber: lolo@linux.it Fingerprint: 8CDD 3408 53B2 6122 99DA EE37 1523 68FC D906 4C08 Vuoi aiutarci ad avere le descrizioni dei pacchetti Debian in italiano? http://ddtp.debian.org/ From wk@gnupg.org Tue Dec 10 17:46:14 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:46:14 +0100 Subject: Starting with gnats In-Reply-To: <3DF4EA03.45569FCD@ll.iac.es> ("Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?q?Ta=F1o"'s?= message of "Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:07:47 +0000") References: <87ptsbm55g.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> <3DF4EA03.45569FCD@ll.iac.es> Message-ID: <87pts922e1.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:07:47 +0000, Noel D Torres Taņo said: > Is possible to use directly the bug-any@gnupg.org address, provided one Sure. I will also install a web page to send a bug report. I havenot yet done this because I need to investigate the security issues first. GNATS has been rewritten in large parts and at the time it was first developed, security was not that important ;-) Shalom-Salam, Werner From wk@gnupg.org Tue Dec 10 18:37:57 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:37:57 +0100 Subject: ["Roger Padvorac" ] sizing of en faq page on http://www.gnupg.org Message-ID: <87el8p1zzu.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> --=-=-= Well, I don't understand this message: --=-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline X-From-Line: uucp@gnupg.de Tue Dec 10 06:52:06 2002 Received: from uucp by alberti.g10code.de with local-rmail (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18LdJO-0002Aw-00; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:52:06 +0100 Received: from (porta.u64.de) [192.168.123.1] by kasiski.gnupg.de with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 18LeF4-0004zS-00; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:51:42 +0100 Received: from (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net) [207.217.120.22] by porta.u64.de with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18LemR-0002sr-00; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:26:11 +0100 Received: from dialup-63.214.14.139.dial1.seattle1.level3.net ([63.214.14.139] helo=rogerph3) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18LdKq-0003dN-00; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:53:36 -0800 Message-ID: <00c901c2a010$7e87dff0$f21efea9@rogerph3> From: "Roger Padvorac" To: Cc: "Roger Padvorac" Subject: sizing of en faq page on http://www.gnupg.org Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:53:40 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Lines: 69 Xref: alberti.g10code.de mail.gnupg.webmaster:1427 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="===-=-=" --===-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, I appreciate all the work that went into this. Unfortunately it is very hard for me to read the faq because it goes way off to the right of the screen, so I have to keep sliding it back and forth to read it, and this makes it hard to follow. This is the page: http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html I am running: windows 2000 server sp2 IE 5.50.4807.2300 with screen resolution 800 x 600 The page looks hardcoded for something like 1024 x 768 or larger. Roger --===-=-= Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

      Hi,
      I appreciate all the work that went into this. Unfortunately it is very hard for me to read the faq because it goes way off to the right of the screen, so I have to keep sliding it back and forth to read it, and this makes it hard to follow.
       
      This is the page:
       
      I am running:
      windows 2000 server sp2
      IE 5.50.4807.2300
      with screen resolution 800 x 600
       
      The page looks hardcoded for something like 1024 x 768 or larger.
       
      Roger
       
      --===-=-=-- --=-=-=-- From wk@gnupg.org Tue Dec 10 18:39:13 2002 From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:39:13 +0100 Subject: [y0k0 ] gnupg frontend for kde Message-ID: <87bs3t1zxq.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> --=-=-= I guess we should add this link. --=-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline X-From-Line: uucp@gnupg.de Mon Dec 09 12:14:07 2002 Received: from uucp by alberti.g10code.de with local-rmail (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18LLrT-0000EB-00; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 12:14:07 +0100 Received: from (porta.u64.de) [192.168.123.1] by kasiski.gnupg.de with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 18LMm2-0001Ki-00; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:12:34 +0100 Received: from (mta2n.bluewin.ch) [195.186.4.220] by porta.u64.de with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18LNJM-0004Zq-00; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:47:00 +0100 Received: from [195.186.227.187] (195.186.227.187) by mta2n.bluewin.ch (Bluewin AG 6.5.032) id 3DE76051000FE6C9 for webmaster@gnupg.org; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:14:09 +0100 From: y0k0 To: webmaster@gnupg.org Subject: gnupg frontend for kde Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:11:44 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 Message-Id: <200212091211.45001.bj@altern.org> Lines: 23 Xref: alberti.g10code.de mail.gnupg.webmaster:1423 MIME-Version: 1.0 Hello! Just a short mail to inform you that Geheimnis (frontend for KDE is no longer maintained and does not compile on KDE 3.0). See mail from Geheimis author: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-devel&m=103768382628403&w=2 I am currently working on a new frontend called KGpg which is still in developpement, but the last version is really stable. So, you should maybe replace Geheimnis with KGpg... KGpg home page: http://devel-home.kde.org/~kgpg/ Announcement on http://apps.kde.com http://apps.kde.com/na/2/info/id/1872 PS: the new web site is nice Regards --=-=-=-- From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de Tue Dec 10 23:55:17 2002 From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:55:17 +0100 Subject: ["Roger Padvorac" ] sizing of en faq page on http://www.gnupg.org In-Reply-To: <87el8p1zzu.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> Message-ID: Werner Koch schrieb am 2002-12-10 19:37 Uhr: > Well, > > I don't understand this message: > >> I appreciate all the work that went into this. Unfortunately it is very hard >> for me to read the faq because it goes way off to the right of the screen, so >> I have to keep sliding it back and forth to read it, and this makes it hard >> to follow. >> >> This is the page: >> http://www.gnupg.org/(en)/documentation/faqs.html >> >> I am running: >> windows 2000 server sp2 >> IE 5.50.4807.2300 >> with screen resolution 800 x 600 I can confim the issue with Mozilla and iCab on MacOS X => quite shurely not browser dependent. >> The page looks hardcoded for something like 1024 x 768 or larger. The problem is not 'hardcoded' like

      would do but the use of the 'pre' element, used on the page to markup code and input text. 'pre' (PREformatted text) absolutely prevents line-breaking inside its content. And there are long lines of text marked up by 'pre' (questions 4.12, 5.7). Usually only the reformatted lines are too long for the screen and the rest of the text breaks normaly to fit the browser window. But not if it all belongs to a table :-( Solutions: - don't contain everything in (hardly aplicable to the current site ...) - don't use 
      . 
  Rather use  for program output and  for program input.
  Linebreaks will be set by the browser automatically.
- use 
       but care to break long lines manually.

Greeting, Michi



From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Wed Dec 11 08:28:55 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:28:55 +0100
Subject: FAQ maintainer?
Message-ID: <20021211082855.A23AB2B6B24@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

Hi Werner,

as you know we've got several bugs open for FAQs.  I tried to reach FAQ
maintainer, but I got no answer.

How can we fix those bugs?  Changing the present page at
documentation/faqs.wml doesn't make much sense, since next update from
raw faq file will overwrite everything...

List of bugs:

- dangling links to www.gnupg.org
- using 
       tag in place of line-breakable  for program output
  and  for user input.


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From wk@gnupg.org  Wed Dec 11 09:52:28 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:52:28 +0100
Subject: FAQ maintainer?
In-Reply-To: <20021211082855.A23AB2B6B24@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com> ("Lorenzo
 Cappelletti"'s message of "Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:28:55 +0100")
References: <20021211082855.A23AB2B6B24@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <87wumgsx0j.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:28:55 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said:

> Hi Werner,

> as you know we've got several bugs open for FAQs.  I tried to reach FAQ
> maintainer, but I got no answer.

dscribner at bigfoot.com

I usually don't have problems to contact him.  

> How can we fix those bugs?  Changing the present page at
> documentation/faqs.wml doesn't make much sense, since next update from
> raw faq file will overwrite everything...

I intend to update faq.wml from David's input.  I think this is easier
than setting up an automated system.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner



From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Wed Dec 11 12:29:46 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:29:46 +0100
Subject: FAQs at gnupg.org
Message-ID: <20021211122946.3140C2B6B49@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

Hi,

are you the person who is in charge to update FAQs at gnupg.org?

I updated the site (see http://www.gnupg.org/ and
http://preview.gnupg.org/) and internal links (those that point to
www.gnupg.org site) have changed...

Could you please fix them by updating your version of FAQ file?  We're
getting lots of bug reports from users...

Thanks.


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From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Wed Dec 11 12:30:18 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:30:18 +0100
Subject: FAQ maintainer?
Message-ID: <20021211123018.701032B6BA7@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Werner Koch 
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:52:28 +0100
To: "Lorenzo Cappelletti" 
Subject: Re: FAQ maintainer?


> dscribner at bigfoot.com

Ok, I'll try...

> I intend to update faq.wml from David's input.  I think this is easier
> than setting up an automated system.

This is my idea too, but we're getting lots of bug reports...  hope he
can get them fixed quickly.



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From wk@gnupg.org  Wed Dec 11 14:19:34 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:19:34 +0100
Subject: Starting with gnats
In-Reply-To: <20021210225106.B1936@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of
 "Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:51:06 +0100")
References: <87ptsbm55g.fsf@alberti.g10code.de> <20021210225106.B1936@quark>
Message-ID: <87pts8r62x.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:51:06 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said:

> I saw that there also a daemon called gnatsd which (X)Emacs makes use
> of.  Are you going to set it up, too?  I'd much appreciated it.

Sure, this is the core of gnats.  However, access is currently
restricted to a few selected IP addresses.  I'll better audit it
first.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner



From wk@gnupg.org  Wed Dec 11 14:28:54 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:28:54 +0100
Subject: ["Roger Padvorac" ] sizing of en faq
 page on http://www.gnupg.org
In-Reply-To:  (Michael Nahrath's
 message of "Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:55:17 +0100")
References: 
Message-ID: <87n0ncr5nd.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:55:17 +0100, Michael Nahrath said:

> 'pre' (PREformatted text) absolutely prevents line-breaking inside its
> content.

Then we need to explain, that it is meant as just one line.  PRE
allows us to show exactly how it should be typed.

> And there are long lines of text marked up by 'pre' (questions 4.12, 5.7).

> Usually only the reformatted lines are too long for the screen and the rest
> of the text breaks normaly to fit the browser window. But not if it all
> belongs to a table :-(

> Solutions:
> - don't contain everything in
      (hardly aplicable to the current > site ...) > - don't use 
      . 
>   Rather use  for program output and  for program input.
>   Linebreaks will be set by the browser automatically.

What are the properties of KBD?  Does the browser give some
indication whether there is a real line break.

> - use 
       but care to break long lines manually.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner



From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 15:57:15 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:57:15 +0000
Subject: Isn't this a bit outdated?
Message-ID: <3DF7605B.6EA42A74@ll.iac.es>

documentation/mailing-lists_list.wml


  (en)It is used to discuss the development of the GNU crypto library
      which will be part of GnuPG 1.1.
  (es)Se utiliza para discutir el desarrollo de la biblioteca de
      criptografía de GNU, que seráa parte de GnuPG 1.1.



From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 16:24:56 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:24:56 +0000
Subject: Isn't this a bit outdated?
References: <3DF7605B.6EA42A74@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <3DF766D8.4E10FA18@ll.iac.es>

Another thing to check:
download/cvs_access.wml

      
  (en)You must run scripts/autogen.sh before doing the
      ./configure, as this creates some needed while
      which are not in the CVS. autogen.sh should checks
      that you have all required tools installed.  Please read the CVS
      manual page before doing so. The HEAD revision is the
      very experimental gpg 1.1 code; the stable 1.0 branch is known
      under the tag STABLE-BRANCH-1-0.

      


From gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de  Wed Dec 11 16:50:50 2002
From: gpgweb-devel@nahrath.de (Michael Nahrath)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:50:50 +0100
Subject: sizing of en faq page on http://www.gnupg.org
In-Reply-To: <87n0ncr5nd.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>
Message-ID: 

Werner Koch  schrieb am 2002-12-11 15:28 Uhr:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:55:17 +0100, Michael Nahrath said:
> 
>> 'pre' (PREformatted text) absolutely prevents line-breaking inside its
>> content.
> 
> Then we need to explain, that it is meant as just one line.  PRE
> allows us to show exactly how it should be typed.

Yes, that's the advantage - but in terms of accessibility the disadvantage
at the same time, at least if nested in tables.
 
>> - don't use 
      .
>>   Rather use  for program output and  for program input.

I have to correct myself.

There exists a better element to markup program output than 'code'.
Rather use 'samp'.

 for more
information.

In usual browser defaults it makes no difference in the rendering at all.

But it gives you better possibilities for styling and maybe some
applications that really care for souch semantic details have some profit (I
don't know how eg. aureal browser would handel this).

>>   Linebreaks will be set by the browser automatically.
> 
> What are the properties of KBD?  Does the browser give some
> indication whether there is a real line break.

Unfortunately not, at least in no browser that I know.

If it is importent, that lines are typed in as one you may prevent the worst
by including   at places where linebreaks would be especially
disturbing. 
And you'll need to comment that this has to be read as one line.

Example for this (not from the FAQ):

gpg --keyserver keyserver.kjsl.com --recv-key 9A4C704C
      

pub  1024D/9A4C704C  created: 2001-11-02
expires: never
 
>> - use 
       but care to break long lines manually.

Pro: you have at least controll about the breaks.

How do you deal the following line (from FAQ:4.12) if you have to send it by
mail?

 gpg --batch --decrypt --list-only --status-fd 1 2>/dev/null | awk
'/^\[GNUPG:\] ENC_TO / { print $3 }'

Same could be done by hard-breaking inside 'pre'.

Con: You have linebreaks even for users with vast displays and windows that
would rather read one long line.

Greeting, Michi



From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 17:28:12 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:28:12 +0000
Subject: Isn't this a bit outdated?
References: <3DF7605B.6EA42A74@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <3DF775AC.CC17641E@ll.iac.es>

download/release_notes.wml

      
  (en)Please read the NEWS file for a more complete list. 1.0.x is the
      stable version of GnuPG. (1.1.x is the real unstable development
      version which should not be used).

      


From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Wed Dec 11 16:26:21 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:26:21 +0100
Subject: ["Roger Padvorac" ] sizing of en faq
 page on http://www.gnupg.org
Message-ID: <20021211162621.AC9662B8497@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Werner Koch 
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:28:54 +0100 
To: Michael Nahrath 
Subject: Re: ["Roger Padvorac" ] sizing of en faq page on http://www.gnupg.org


> What are the properties of KBD?  Does the browser give some
> indication whether there is a real line break.

It's quite easy for me to do a version of  that breaks a long line 
with a " \" before it gets longer than n characters.  Of course, this
doesn't work out the problem for all cases...

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From wk@gnupg.org  Wed Dec 11 19:24:02 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:24:02 +0100
Subject: ["Roger Padvorac" ] sizing of en faq
 page on http://www.gnupg.org
In-Reply-To: <20021211162621.AC9662B8497@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com> ("Lorenzo
 Cappelletti"'s message of "Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:26:21 +0100")
References: <20021211162621.AC9662B8497@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <87el8opdf1.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:26:21 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said:

> It's quite easy for me to do a version of  that breaks a long line 
> with a " \" before it gets longer than n characters.  Of course, this
> doesn't work out the problem for all cases...

I'll ask David to use  and explain that it is always one line.
Line continuation may even confuse Windows users.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner



From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 20:20:02 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:20:02 +0000
Subject: A mistake?
Message-ID: <3DF79DF2.F60C28CB@ll.iac.es>

In related_software/frontend_list.wml


  (en)For Emacs.  You may need the latest
      
      until there us a new release of Mailcrypt.


until there us a new release
maybe
until there is a new release

Noel


From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 21:32:52 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:32:52 +0000
Subject: EGD appears twice
Message-ID: <3DF7AF04.CE507486@ll.iac.es>

EGD appears both in related_software/library_list.wml and in
related_software/tool_list.wml
Is this OK?


From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 21:47:26 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:47:26 +0000
Subject: A mistake?
References: <3DF79DF2.F60C28CB@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <3DF7B26E.2336BE84@ll.iac.es>

Another mistake?
In related_software/gpa/icons.wml


  (en)Within someones public key you can encrypt a file. Only the
      corresponding secret key can decrypt the file.

maybe "With" instead of "Within"?


From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 21:50:18 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:50:18 +0000
Subject: A mistake?
References: <3DF79DF2.F60C28CB@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <3DF7B31A.13089786@ll.iac.es>

In the same related_software/gpa/icons.wml

  (en)With your secret key you can decrypt any document that was
      encrypted for your (using your public key).

--------------------^
maybe "you"?


From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 22:14:45 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:14:45 +0000
Subject: A mistake?
References: <3DF79DF2.F60C28CB@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <3DF7B8D5.EC3160BF@ll.iac.es>

In related_software/gpa/screenshots.wml

      
  (en)Main windows

      
I think it must be
  (en)Main window


From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Wed Dec 11 22:25:08 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:25:08 +0000
Subject: A mistake?
References: <3DF79DF2.F60C28CB@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <3DF7BB44.33EA0521@ll.iac.es>

In related_software/gpgme/index.wml

      
  (en)Especially authors of MUAs should consider to use GPGME.  It is
      even planned to created a set of standard widgets for common key
      selection tasks.

      
I think "created" must be in infinitive: "create"


From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Thu Dec 12 07:25:03 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:25:03 +0100
Subject: Starting with gnats
Message-ID: <20021212072503.5502C2B6B62@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Werner Koch 
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:14:03 +0100 
To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org
Subject: Starting with gnats


> You have to enable submittin a reporting by mail using these entries
> in /etc/gnats/send-pr.conf:

[snip]

> MAILPROG="mail bug-any@gnupg.org"

It seems to me that this variable assignement is not correct, because
this way mail uses its own From:, To:, Subject:, etc. and not those
provided in the template file.  As an example, see PR #5 at
http://bugs.gnupg.org/: template's fields belongs to Unformatted area.

I suggest to use

MAILPROG="/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -t"

or even nothing.  Note I didn't give it a try, though.


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From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Thu Dec 12 09:45:46 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:45:46 +0100
Subject: Isn't this a bit outdated?
Message-ID: <20021212094546.A5DEA2B6B85@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel D. Torres Taņo" 
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:24:56 +0000 
To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org
Subject: Re: Isn't this a bit outdated?


> Another thing to check:
> download/cvs_access.wml

Could you open a bug, please, as Werner explained to us?

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From l.cappelletti@mail.com  Thu Dec 12 12:30:24 2002
From: l.cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:30:24 +0100
Subject: Sending PR by e-mail
Message-ID: <20021212123024.3C6AF2B6BBF@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>

With Gnats you can send a PR (Problem Report) by e-mail.

Send an e-mail to bug-any@gnupg.org with the following form filled in
and that's it!

You can have a clue of what you get surfing at http://bugs.gnugp.org/
and looking for PR #8.

PS: I think Noel will find it specially useful!  ;-)


=======================
>Submitter-Id: 
>Originator:   
>Synopsis:     <(one line)>
>Confidential: <[ yes | no ] (one line)>
>Severity:  <[ critical | serious | non-critical ] (one
line)>
>Priority:     <[ high | medium | low ] (one line)>
>Category:     gpgweb
>Class:  <[ sw-bug | doc-bug | support | change-request |
mistaken | duplicate ] (one line)>
>Environment: 

>Description: 

>How-To-Repeat:

>Fix:         
=========================


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From L.Cappelletti@mail.com  Sun Dec 15 15:11:33 2002
From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:11:33 +0100
Subject: Revision 1.1 released
Message-ID: <20021215161133.C268@quark>

I released today revision 1.1 of gnupg.org.  It fixes the most part of
all thos bugs that we've been reported since revision 1.0 was out.


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From wk@gnupg.org  Wed Dec 18 09:09:04 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:09:04 +0100
Subject: Starting with gnats
In-Reply-To: <20021212072503.5502C2B6B62@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com> ("Lorenzo
 Cappelletti"'s message of "Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:25:03 +0100")
References: <20021212072503.5502C2B6B62@ws1-5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <874r9b7ky7.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:25:03 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said:

> I suggest to use

> MAILPROG="/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -t"

Correct.

> or even nothing.  Note I didn't give it a try, though.

This would use the daeon and thus you need access rights.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner



From L.Cappelletti@mail.com  Fri Dec 20 22:57:27 2002
From: L.Cappelletti@mail.com (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:57:27 +0100
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=28fwd=29_Fallo_en_las_paginas_en_espa=F1ol_y_los_manuale?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?s=2E?=
Message-ID: <20021220235727.A271@quark>

Hi Noel,

I quite understand what the problem is here, but if you could to
translate it and maybe make a PR...


----- Forwarded message from adjaen@soluziona.com -----

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:29:22 +0100
From: adjaen@soluziona.com
Subject: Fallo en las paginas en espa=F1ol y los manuales.
To: lolo@gnupg.org

Los manuales de gnupg y las paginas en castellano no estan disponibles en
la actualidad.
      Manuales:
            Los enlaces hacen referencia al directorio "gph/", el cual se
encuentra vacio

      Castellano:
            Todos los enlaces hacen referencia a paginas con la extension
".html.es", que no es reconocida por los navegadores y, por lo tanto, no se
pueden visualizar. las extension correcta seria ".es.html"

      Esperando solucionen estos problemas con la mayor celereidad

            Saludos --- Angel


----- End forwarded message -----

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From ndtt@ll.iac.es  Mon Dec 23 17:25:41 2002
From: ndtt@ll.iac.es (Noel D. Torres =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:25:41 +0000
Subject: (fwd) Fallo en las paginas en =?iso-8859-1?Q?espa=F1ol?= y los
 manuales.
References: <20021220235727.A271@quark>
Message-ID: <3E074715.FE675AE2@ll.iac.es>

This is the english translation of the mail:
> Subject: Fallo en las paginas en espa=F1ol y los manuales.
Subject: Failures in the spanish pages and in the manuals.
> Los manuales de gnupg y las paginas en castellano no estan disponibles =
en
> la actualidad.
The gnupg manuals and the pages in spanish aren't actually at public
disposal.
>       Manuales:
>             Los enlaces hacen referencia al directorio "gph/", el cual =
se
> encuentra vacio
Manuals: The links refer to the "gph/" directory, which is empty.=20
>       Castellano:
>             Todos los enlaces hacen referencia a paginas con la extensi=
on
> ".html.es", que no es reconocida por los navegadores y, por lo tanto, n=
o se
> pueden visualizar. las extension correcta seria ".es.html"
Spanish: All links refer to pages with ".html.es" extension, which isn't
recognized by the browsers and, thus, they can't be visualized. The
correct extension would be ".es.html"
>       Esperando solucionen estos problemas con la mayor celereidad
Hoping you correct these problems with the higher velocity
>             Saludos --- Angel

Noel


From iw3axl@ir3ip.net  Wed Dec 25 19:53:39 2002
From: iw3axl@ir3ip.net (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:53:39 +0100
Subject: [PR48] Different look-and-feel for lists.gnupg.org
Message-ID: <20021225205339.E291@quark>

Hi Werner,

a solution regarding PR 48 might be to make http://lists.gnupg.org/
point to http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/mailing-lists.html
Is that possible?

Moreover, we've got two pages which hold the same piece of information.
One of them has to be deleted, IMO.


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From iw3axl@ir3ip.net  Wed Dec 25 17:47:06 2002
From: iw3axl@ir3ip.net (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 18:47:06 +0100
Subject: Subject in PR?
Message-ID: <20021225184706.A291@quark>

Hi Werner,

I was wondering if it's a misconfiguration why gnats doesn't set a
subject to PR notification e-mails...


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From iw3axl@ir3ip.net  Wed Dec 25 19:58:19 2002
From: iw3axl@ir3ip.net (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:58:19 +0100
Subject: Who takes care of FAQ PRs?
Message-ID: <20021225205819.F291@quark>

Hi Werner,

who should I assign PRs related to FAQs?  Has scribner (sorry, I forgot
his name) access to gnats db?


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From iw3axl@ir3ip.net  Thu Dec 26 14:37:59 2002
From: iw3axl@ir3ip.net (Lorenzo Cappelletti)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:37:59 +0100
Subject: small things
In-Reply-To: <3E084BCD.6958C9E4@ll.iac.es>; from ndtt@ll.iac.es on Tue, Dec 24, 2002 at 11:58:05AM +0000
References: <20021219080322.48735.qmail@mail.com> <3E084BCD.6958C9E4@ll.iac.es>
Message-ID: <20021226153759.A281@quark>

On Tue Dec 24 at 11:58 +0000, Noel D . Torres Ta=F1o wrote:

> How to generate the site pages when I commit a new version or a bug
> correction?

According to what Werner told me, both preview and main sites are build
whenever Changelog or news_list.wml files change.

> Can I add notices about spanish webpages releases?

If you feel so, please do it at your pleasure.

> Can I correct errors in english orginal (en) sentences?

You can save me a lot work.  Please, go ahead.

> Must I create tags or branches when I'm to make big revisions of spanish
> webpages?

If you think that a branch is required, just make it.  No problem at
all for tags.  Just one note: please, use descriptive name and add a
comment at the end of README.cvs file.

> Can I translate FAQ and news directly from the .wml files?

You have to translate news from news_list.wml file.
You can translate FAQs from documentation/faqs.wml (see the bottom of
the file), but there might be a more standard way... Werner?

> How can I access the original .html pages in spanish to compare that
> translations with my own ones?

You can retrieve tag-WML_adoption-begin from CVS tree.  (See README.cvs
again).


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From wk@gnupg.org  Fri Dec 27 16:14:17 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:14:17 +0100
Subject: Who takes care of FAQ PRs?
In-Reply-To: <20021225205819.F291@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of
 "Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:58:19 +0100")
References: <20021225205819.F291@quark>
Message-ID: <87y96ba17q.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

On Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:58:19 +0100, Lorenzo Cappelletti said:

> who should I assign PRs related to FAQs?  Has scribner (sorry, I forgot
> his name) access to gnats db?

Not yet.

David, should I give you access?


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner



From wk@gnupg.org  Sat Dec 28 11:22:46 2002
From: wk@gnupg.org (Werner Koch)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 12:22:46 +0100
Subject: small things
In-Reply-To: <20021226153759.A281@quark> (Lorenzo Cappelletti's message of
 "Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:37:59 +0100")
References: <20021219080322.48735.qmail@mail.com>
 <3E084BCD.6958C9E4@ll.iac.es> <20021226153759.A281@quark>
Message-ID: <87bs369ym1.fsf@alberti.g10code.de>

> You can translate FAQs from documentation/faqs.wml (see the bottom of
> the file), but there might be a more standard way... Werner?

Better translate the file faq.raw from the GnuPG CVS
(STBALE-BRANCH-1-2) and send it to me.  This way we can render it into
other formats.


Salam-Shalom,

   Werner