Jerome Baum jerome at
Tue Mar 22 19:07:23 CET 2011

"Robert J. Hansen" <rjh at> writes:

> The prosecutor is going to be afraid of what she can't see.  She has
> Alice, saying you're in it up to your eyeballs: she has you, claiming
> innocence: she has a bunch of messages which you say are deniable and you
> can't prove anything but which Alice says "he's lying to you."  Really, I
> feel sympathy for Paula: she's in a terrible spot.  Being able to present
> your messages is a good way of breaking that logjam: suddenly, Paula's
> wrath turns on Alice for her deceptiveness and deceit.

I'm saying what if Alice sends me incriminating messages? Like "burglary
happens at 5am"? I can respond "I don't know what you're talking about",
but how does that help me? I could report her, but I might choose not to
bother. (Hmm, is it a requirement if I don't think she's serious?)

> Not as much as you might think.  You could also say that the evidence of
> disk wiping programs makes it hard for you to claim, "but I never had that
> data in the first place!"  In reality, if the cops search your hard drive
> and see Evidence Eliminator, they're going to strongly suspect you of
> trying to destroy something important: but if the forensicist comes back
> and says, "nope, no evidence he ever downloaded a file wiper," it gives
> your claims of innocence more weight.

See this  is exactly  the problem.  I agree it's  true but  it shouldn't
be -- why is it incriminating that I care about my privacy?

>> Also, when did Alice turn evil? :)

> She and Bob have been overthrowing governments, committing securities
> fraud, carrying on a torrid affair without their spouses' knowledge, etc.,
> for a very long time, all despite the fact they've never met face to face,
> they don't trust each other, and know they're under surveillance by the
> secret police.

I like to  think of Alice and  Bob as nice fellas, employed  at Big Corp
and Acme Corp,  respectively (just to confuse people,  Alice is employed
at Big Corp,  and Bob at Acme Corp). The only  thing they might exchange
is messages about  Mallice, who is evil anyway and  it doesn't matter if
we hurt her feelings.

In  any case  I'd love  to see  that reference  to securities  fraud.  I
haven't seen that one before.

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