From aheinecke at gnupg.org Mon May 15 12:41:24 2023 From: aheinecke at gnupg.org (Andre Heinecke) Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 12:41:24 +0200 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. Message-ID: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> Hi, I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: When I helped to found this Verein and wrote the constitution the future of GnuPG was unclear. GnuPG mostly relied on donations and maybe public funding from the BSI, with which we could not calculate. So we needed a charitable Verein in my opinion to ensure that work on GnuPG and the intention behind it. With the intention behind GnuPG I mean that "The Best possible crypto should be available for everyone, always, and open source." Which is part of our Vereins goals. But I now believe that the Vereins goals are either met, or can better be reached by other means. Since I took over most of Werner's brothers shares and started working full time for g10 Code we have developed the company so far that donations are no longer required, we even canceled them [1] so we also do not need the Verein for charitable donations. With OpenPGP booming [4], we are now at a point in my opinion that GnuPG and especially OpenPGP is so established in the European economy and public sector that it will never go away since it is now basically critical infrastructure. Thanks to our copyleft license this directly ensures that the public will profit from all that. Even if g10 Code would bankrupt or both Werner and me would share an unlucky bus there are billon dollar companies ready to pick up. That is even before mentioning other OpenPGP implementations which have gotten more established since we founded the Verein. So we concentrated on the business and to promote GnuPG through that and the Verein mostly rotted and did nothing really. The little which we did as the Verein, pick up a few travel costs here and there and payed for a public Keyserver could easily be picked up by a for profit like g10 or Intevation from the Gpg4win donations. So in conclusion I would suggest closing the Verein down and find a worthy heir to the funds of our donors. Which is still ~130k? I believe that the KDE e.V. [2] Should be this heir. With KMail, Kmymoney, KWallet and now Okular they provide easy to use and accessible frontends for GnuPG. That is even before mentioning Kleopatra which is our main User Interface. I believe their goals align with ours, KDE e.V. is in my opinion a healthy, professionally managed Verein and could put our donors money to good use without being wasteful. Also that it is a charitable German Verein helps legally. KDE software is privacy focused and with some apps in the Windows Store and all others available through WSL we would not even alienate our donors that use windows exclusively. Additionally I would propose a donation of 15.000 Euro to the Free Software Friends in D?sseldorf [3] for their help in establishing our Verein, probable legal help in dissolving it and in general to continue to promote our work publicly. We also verbally agreed to pay our part of the rent for the shared office, so this should be covered by that. Before moving on to the next steps I just wanted to put this suggestion out there and ask for opinions. Best Regards, Andre 1: https://gnupg.org/blog/20220102-a-new-future-for-gnupg.html 2: https://ev.kde.org/whatiskdeev/ 3: https://freie-software.org/verein/ 4: We have been a bit silent about this and are aware that we need to blog / talk about the current state of OpenPGP adaption more publicly. -- GnuPG.com - a brand of g10 Code, the GnuPG experts. g10 Code GmbH, Erkrath/Germany, AG Wuppertal HRB14459 GF Werner Koch, USt-Id DE215605608, www.g10code.com. GnuPG e.V., Rochusstr. 44, D-40479 D?sseldorf. VR 11482 D?sseldorf Vorstand: W.Koch, B.Reiter, A.Heinecke Mail: board at gnupg.org Finanzamt D-Altstadt, St-Nr: 103/5923/1779. Tel: +49-211-28010702 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 5655 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From martin at gollo.at Mon May 15 13:43:41 2023 From: martin at gollo.at (Martin Gollowitzer) Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 13:43:41 +0200 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. In-Reply-To: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> References: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> Message-ID: Hi, * Andre Heinecke [230515 12:41]: > Hi, > > I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: > [?] I fully agree with the proposal and also with the suggested distribution of the remaining funds. Best, Martin From gnupg at smolinski.name Tue May 16 19:38:18 2023 From: gnupg at smolinski.name (Holger Smolinski) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 19:38:18 +0200 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. In-Reply-To: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> References: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> Message-ID: <20230516193818.79d2ac56@tuvalu> On Mon, 15 May 2023 12:41:24 +0200 Andre Heinecke wrote: > Hi, > I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: No objections from my side. Distributionf of funds sounds reasonable. Best Regards, Holger -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From phil.pennock at spodhuis.org Wed May 17 00:48:13 2023 From: phil.pennock at spodhuis.org (Phil Pennock) Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 22:48:13 +0000 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. In-Reply-To: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> References: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> Message-ID: On 2023-05-15 at 12:41 +0200, Andre Heinecke wrote: > I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: [...] > So in conclusion I would suggest closing the Verein down and find a worthy heir > to the funds of our donors. Which is still ~130k? > > I believe that the KDE e.V. [2] Should be this heir. With KMail, Kmymoney, > KWallet and now Okular they provide easy to use and accessible frontends for > GnuPG. That is even before mentioning Kleopatra which is our main User > Interface. > > I believe their goals align with ours, KDE e.V. is in my opinion a healthy, > professionally managed Verein and could put our donors money to good use > without being wasteful. Also that it is a charitable German Verein helps > legally. > KDE software is privacy focused and with some apps in the Windows Store and > all others available through WSL we would not even alienate our donors that > use windows exclusively. > > Additionally I would propose a donation of 15.000 Euro to the Free Software > Friends in D?sseldorf [3] for their help in establishing our Verein, probable > legal help in dissolving it and in general to continue to promote our work > publicly. We also verbally agreed to pay our part of the rent for the shared > office, so this should be covered by that. > > Before moving on to the next steps I just wanted to put this suggestion out > there and ask for opinions. All sounds reasonable to me. No objections here. -Phil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wk at gnupg.org Fri May 19 10:08:13 2023 From: wk at gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 10:08:13 +0200 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. In-Reply-To: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> (Andre Heinecke's message of "Mon, 15 May 2023 12:41:24 +0200") References: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> Message-ID: <874jo8pwuq.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Hi! On Mon, 15 May 2023 12:41, Andre Heinecke said: > I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: I fully agree with the proposal. Regarding the remaining funds I suggest to also distrubute a part of them to the zwiebelfreunde.de, a German Verein running a bunch of Tor server. They may even be able to make easy use of the remaining one Bitcoin. Shalom-Salam, Werner -- The pioneers of a warless world are the youth that refuse military service. - A. Einstein -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: openpgp-digital-signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 227 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernhard at intevation.de Mon May 22 10:58:42 2023 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 10:58:42 +0200 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. In-Reply-To: <874jo8pwuq.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> References: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> <874jo8pwuq.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Message-ID: <202305221058.52919.bernhard@intevation.de> Hello friends of GnuPG, Am Freitag 19 Mai 2023 10:08:13 schrieb Werner Koch: > On Mon, 15 May 2023 12:41, Andre Heinecke said: > > I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: > > I fully agree with the proposal. > > Regarding the remaining funds I suggest to also distrubute a part of > them to the zwiebelfreunde.de, a German Verein running a bunch of Tor > server. They may even be able to make easy use of the remaining one > Bitcoin. from my perspective I will follow Andre and Werner on this, as they were the most active members of the "verein" (German association) and they hold the lead on GnuPG and the OpenPGP standardisation efforts over many years. The Verein could still be potentially useful for GnuPG and potentially extending its activities to OpenPGP and other decentral end-to-end crypto communications standards like emails and implementations that are Free Software. It could also be used to offer outside perspectives to g10code and Intevation and run services like a public keyserver and conference. However this all would mean that a number of people would step up and get active. And I do not see that happening. It is very cool that g10code is having more economic success with GnuPG now and my company Intevation also has grown (at least a bit). So my time to help organising a Verein is very limited and it is natural and good that Werner's and Andre's time budget for this is decreasing as well. It means they can spread GnuPG in more areas of use. Best Regards Bernhard -- https://intevation.de/~bernhard ? +49 541 33 508 3-3 Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 659 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From maurice at kemmann.de Mon May 22 12:28:33 2023 From: maurice at kemmann.de (Maurice Kemmann) Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 12:28:33 +0200 Subject: Dissolving the GnuPG e.V. In-Reply-To: <874jo8pwuq.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> References: <1763462.VLH7GnMWUR@teutates> <874jo8pwuq.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Message-ID: <467b72a0-3a0b-12fb-ce87-07205d230c2f@kemmann.de> Hi, Am 19.05.2023 um 10:08 schrieb Werner Koch: > On Mon, 15 May 2023 12:41, Andre Heinecke said: > >> I am proposing to dissolve the GnuPG e.V.: > > I fully agree with the proposal. me too. > Regarding the remaining funds I suggest to also distrubute a part of > them to the zwiebelfreunde.de, a German Verein running a bunch of Tor > server. They may even be able to make easy use of the remaining one > Bitcoin. From my perspective i would like to split the funds a bit but as discussed with Andre it should fit the ideas of the Verein. - Free Software Friends - Zwiebelfreunde - KDE I agree with Bernhard, that there are some potential topics in future but with no maintainers it make no sense to keep it alive artificially. I personally would suggest a "funeral feast" with dissolving but ... :-) Just my two cents, Maurice -- Maurice Kemmann +49 175 721 7020 maurice at kemmann.de Messenger: Signal Social Media: LinkedIn & Xing From bernhard at intevation.de Wed May 24 16:19:12 2023 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 16:19:12 +0200 Subject: keyserver.gnupg.org funded by GnuPG e. Verein In-Reply-To: <2215785.iZASKD2KPV@kymo.gruen> References: <202301311636.21685.bernhard@intevation.de> <2215785.iZASKD2KPV@kymo.gruen> Message-ID: <202305241619.12706.bernhard@intevation.de> Hi, Am Montag 20 Februar 2023 18:11:32 schrieb Bernhard Reiter: > Was the draft okay, so I shall send it? > > > == Announcement Draft shall I send it as is? (Did not get around doing it in Feburary, as I was unable to work for quite a while.) My suggestion is that g10code takes over the contractual obligation once the Verein is dissolved as Intevation already runs another keyserver. Best Regards Bernhard -- https://intevation.de/~bernhard ? +49 541 33 508 3-3 Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 659 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From wk at gnupg.org Wed May 24 16:24:38 2023 From: wk at gnupg.org (Werner Koch) Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 16:24:38 +0200 Subject: keyserver.gnupg.org funded by GnuPG e. Verein In-Reply-To: <202305241619.12706.bernhard@intevation.de> (Bernhard Reiter's message of "Wed, 24 May 2023 16:19:12 +0200") References: <202301311636.21685.bernhard@intevation.de> <2215785.iZASKD2KPV@kymo.gruen> <202305241619.12706.bernhard@intevation.de> Message-ID: <87lehdlsd5.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> On Wed, 24 May 2023 16:19, Bernhard Reiter said: > My suggestion is that g10code takes over the contractual obligation > once the Verein is dissolved > as Intevation already runs another keyserver. Well, for the 45kEUR Intevation collects as donations for Gpg4win running two keyservers should not be too much. Shalom-Salam, Werner -- The pioneers of a warless world are the youth that refuse military service. - A. Einstein -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: openpgp-digital-signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 227 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernhard at intevation.de Wed May 24 18:27:11 2023 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 18:27:11 +0200 Subject: keyserver.gnupg.org funded by GnuPG e. Verein In-Reply-To: <87lehdlsd5.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> References: <202301311636.21685.bernhard@intevation.de> <202305241619.12706.bernhard@intevation.de> <87lehdlsd5.fsf@wheatstone.g10code.de> Message-ID: <202305241827.18882.bernhard@intevation.de> Am Mittwoch 24 Mai 2023 16:24:38 schrieb Werner Koch: > Well, for the 45kEUR Intevation collects as donations for Gpg4win It is less than that since a while, I'll provide you with an update soonish. > running two keyservers should not be too much. Not from the financial side, but my suggestion is mainly about control and decentralisation. It is better if more organisations running different servers. Regards, Bernhard -- https://intevation.de/~bernhard ? +49 541 33 508 3-3 Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 659 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: