needs in OpenPGP to use it for a bitcoin replacement.

Jerome Baum jerome at
Thu May 26 13:52:33 CEST 2011

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 00:00, Jbar <jeanjacquesbrucker at> wrote:

> > > But bitcoin has also technicals defects, the two most important are :
> > >  - a amount of bitcoin is only stored by only one peer at a time t,
> which
> > >
> > > mean that bitcoins  may easily disapper and that is what already occurs
> > > (I did personally lost a few amount of btc, and i had see in the forum
> > > that I am not alone).
> >
> > Not sure I see this point. If you loose access to your private key, you
> > always loose your digital money. That's a fact of life, and the reason we
> > do backups.
> I have make backups of the private part of my OpenPGP certificate once.
> With bitcoin u should make backups after each transaction...

Isn't this simply because the bitcoin client creates multiple keys and will
create new ones for a transaction? Two options:

1. Give up your anonymity and use the same key everywhere. Requires a small
change to bitcoin client.

2. Keep your anonymity. Use lots of OpenPGP keys that you need to backup

i.e. If you want the anonymity, you still need to make the backups. If you
don't want the anonymity, you're not really creating a bitcoin alternative.

> >  - Transaction are very very slow (I don't have try to pay taxes to the
> > >
> > > people "with the biggest" CPU power), and this is not a surprise why so
> :
> > > first
> > > the proof of work, second  there is in fact a third-party  for bitcoins
> :
> > > it is the entire network.
> >
> > The proof of work is an essential economic measure in the bitcoin
> network.
> > How would your proposed system work without a proof of work? Why would
> > anyone join in?
> We will use OpenPGP web of trust and it will be human-based instead of
> CPU-based.
> People who think than society in based on humans more than on institutions
> or CPU should join in.

"How would your proposed system work without a proof of work?"

You haven't explained how the currency works. Where do the initial "coins"
come from? How are they generated?

> On the third-party, there needs to be a third-party for a digital currency
> > to operate. Otherwise I can use one coin multiple times. If that
> > third-party is the whole network (i.e. "the public"), then that's as good
> > as it gets -- no single point of failure or entity w/ too much power.
> Of course we need no single point of failure or entity with too much power,
> but there is a more efficient alternative than a big single network :
> A network of networks (of networks of networks...) which mean a tree of
> network, to be compared with the DNS system tree (and as fast as n^n grow ,
> we
> don't need a deep tree).

If we have a network of networks, I can use the same coin twice -- once in
network A, once in network B. Or, I cannot use the coin from one network in
another. Or, I need a third-party.

A more in-depth description of your proposed system would help, before
making requests to change OpenPGP. (As David points out, this isn't even
necessary -- nonetheless, you'll probably save yourself lots of time if you
just write up a document about this and have others review it, as opposed to
"just going ahead".)

> I think the whole bitcoin story is questionable enough. I'm not saying
> > bitcoin can't be successful, but you should be wary and make a careful
> > decision. Everyone has different opinions about it. Adding "yet another
> > system" on top of that won't help.
> I just want that gnupg manage a new  subpacket type octet ...

This isn't what I meant with "yet another system". "Yet another system [like
bitcoin]" is "yet another digital currency system", i.e. "yet another choice
the user has to make", analogous to "yet another operation system" or "yet
another Linux distribution". Not that the ability to choose isn't a good
thing. But the shear amount of distributions has been a problem for Linux's
market adoption in the past. This has improved as a number of distros have
emerged as "significant", but the point remains valid -- don't add a system
if you're only making one small change. Document how your system will work,
which security features it addresses and how, and share this document with
others to get some review. Especially share it with the bitcoin authors!

Jerome Baum

tel +49-1578-8434336
email jerome at
PGP: A0E4 B2D4 94E6 20EE 85BA E45B 63E4 2BD8 C58C 753A
PGP: 2C23 EBFF DF1A 840D 2351 F5F5 F25B A03F 2152 36DA
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