Can we show in the main page...

[Dov Margulis]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gpgweb-devel-admin@gnupg.org
> [mailto:gpgweb-devel-admin@gnupg.org]On Behalf Of Noel D. Torres Taņo
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:42 AM
> To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org
> Subject: Re: Can we show in the main page...
>
>
> Dov Margulis wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: gpgweb-devel-admin@gnupg.org
> > > [mailto:gpgweb-devel-admin@gnupg.org]On Behalf Of Pauliuc George
> > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 4:25 PM
> > > To: gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org
> > > Subject: Re: Can we show in the main page...
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:18:58 +0200 "Dov Margulis"
> > > <graf@zahav.net.il> wrote:
> > > > What you did is IMMORAL with a capital I !!!
> > > > Gnu and Gnupg are not your personal home pages.
> > > > You ___CAN'T___ just put what you want on them !!!
> > >
> > > I remember lots of sites publishing banners about September
> > > 11, although that was something for the various NGOs.  I
> > > think there should be a banner against the Israeli invasion
> > > in the territories they don't control.  Besides, in both
> > > cases we're talking about invasion wars.
> >
> > I started by making a really (I mean really long - 40 full lines) reply.
> > The reply I had written was very aggressive.
> > Although I think you should be put in your place, I won't, I'll just say
> > that I think that you are such an extreme redneck ignoramus
> that you should
> > be ignored.
> > For the record I'll just say that:
> > First, Israel _didn't_ invade the Palestinian territories !!!
> > Second, any connection you find between what happened on
> September 11th and
> > today's events is pretty LAME !
> >
> > IMHO, gnupg is _not_ the place for this kind of discussion.
> > However some of you think differently and that's ok.
> >
> > Werner,
> > I urge you again, please remove the banner from gnupg.org since
> you insult
> > many Linux+Gnupg users worldwide !!!
> >
> > Dov.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gpgweb-devel mailing list
> > Gpgweb-devel@gnupg.org
> > http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gpgweb-devel
>
> Dear Dov:

Dear Noel,

> I said you twice that I'm not antisemite nor anti-israelian nor anything
> that way, but now I must answer you because you're simply lying.

First, I'm not a liar !!!
Maybe you are not educated enough !!!  I mean that in both meanings.

> When the State of Israel was created by UN, there was an agreement: the
> english Palestina territory would be divided in six regions, three of
> them to be the State of Israel and the other three for the palestinians.

Your point !
Apparently you DIDN'T learn history well !
We agreed to the U.N. resolution !!!!
It was the Arabic nations (Egypt, Jordan, Syria and others like Iraq !!) who
disagreed and STARTED AN UNPROVOKED WAR ON US !!!!!!!!!!!

> During several wars, the first of them started by the arab countries,
> Israel invaded all the palestinian territories, as well as Sinai and
> Golan highs.

I see that you too are ignoramus.
All of them were started by the Arab Countries !!!
The Sinai peninsula was captured after the six day war in 1967.
When ALL OF THE ARAB NATIONS SOROUNDING ISRAEL ATTACKED US WITHOUT ANY !!!!
PROVOCATION !!!!!!!!!!
Israel kept Sinai in our control in order to allow us to have a buffer zone
between ourselves and Egypt.
That proved to be Smart, since Egypt attacked us later in 1973, on our most
sacred day (Yom Kippur - Day of Atonement)
It's a day where _EVERY_ Jew (secular and religious) fasts _ALL_ day long
and on which wrongdoings committed during that year are atoned for.
They took advantage of that day and attacked, yet again unprovoked !!!
Just so that you know - during that they there is _NO_ traffic (no
cars/buses/trains etc...) and almost everybody is in the synagogues.
So Just imagine our shock.
That buffer zone saved the lives of thousands of Israelis.
The Story of the Golan Heights is the same : Syria attacked unprovoked, so
we needed a buffer zone !!!
And we need it even today.
And like we returned Sinai after the peace agreement with Egypt, we'll do
something like that with the Golan when Syria will want true peace !!!
Don't you see a pattern yet !!!
As for the Palestinian territories, this issue is extremely complicated.
We took the west bank from Jordan in 1967 for exactly the same reasons
mentioned !!!
Since then, a lot has happened - If I'll explain it, It will take about 50
lines (So I'll spare you)
Another Point is that:
We (Israeli Former Prime minister Barak) offered 97% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of
the territories to Yassir Arafat + a Palestinian state ---- HE REFUSED
!!!!!!!!!
Think of the shock in Israel to find out that our "partner" doesn't want
peace (Even U.S President Clinton was shocked from Arafat !!!)
Only later we understood why he didn't agree -- he wanted to start an second
Armed Intifada (I hope you know what's that) in order to achieve his goals.
It cost Barak his office since the majority of Israelis saw that : "We offer
them everything and they open an armed war on us"

> Until today, there are Israel troops on the territories given by the UN
> to the Palestinians in the Partition.

Only in order to protect Israelis from suicide bombings (last one happened
two days ago)
If there won't be terrorists there won't be need for troops !

> And I remember you that you were who first treated the Israel case here
> in the list, talking about SCUDS.

I wasn't.
I only said _that_ gnupg shouldn't take a side just because Werner thinks
so.
Or because the server is in Germany etc..
I was trying to point out that there are two sides to the war issue and that
gnupg shouldn't take neither !!!

> You say Werner is insulting "many Linux+Gnupg users worldwide". The only
> insulted one here is the UN, insulted by the US. This war is illegal.
> I'm sure the banner wouldn't be there if this war were approved by UN's
> Security Council, like 1991 war was.

Say that to the Kurdish people which Sadam bombed with nerve gas
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or to the Kuwaiti citizens which Sadam invaded into in 1990 because of their
oil !!!
Or to the Israeli citizens which are constantly under the fright of
conventional and UNCONVENTIONAL missiles !!!
So legal is many times a point of view, you see.
Do you think that what Sadam did _is_ legal ???
I'm sure the banner would have been there no matter what, because of, I
don't know, werners political views maybe ?!

> The Free Software movement, including not only Linux and GnuPG (and I
> remember you that GnuPG is NOT a Linux product since it runs on a lot of
> platforms) is not simply a software movement. It's an ethical movement
> from its very start by RMS at MIT complaining about a printer driver. So
> we CAN'T be quiet about such an illegal monstruosity like this war.

It's mainly used under Linux !!! ( but I accept the insult by behalf of the
other platforms )
I'm sure that at least U.S and Israeli users are insulted !
You are simply mixing everything on your mind ?
What's the connection ?
I don't see it on Gnu.org !!!
You know Why - Because RMS doesn't mix politics and personal ethical views
!!!

> YOU can not force us all to follow YOUR ideas about this war and its
> meaning.

As far As I saw  - at least Lorenzo and Jakob agree that gnupg.org ISN'T the
place for that kind of political views !!!
You are missing THE POINT : GNUPG.ORG ISN'T THE PLACE FOR POLITICAL VIEWS.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WAR !!!
If the banner was about the Basque bombing I would object too - I hope now
you understand !!!

> And talking about morality, which you invoked to force Werner to retire
> the banner, this war is also immoral, since it's conducted against UN
> Chart, against Irak people, against worldwide public opinion; since it's
> simply an invasion war in seek for the iraqi oil, since it's a vengeance
> for "daddy"'s failure, since the reconstruction is reserved for american
> enterprises only (including Cheney's enterprises), since million dollars
> contracts for reconstruction are assigned to such enterprises even
> without having the control of the thing to reconstruct; since there is
> no liberation for kurdish people from Saddam since they are being
> invaded by turquish troops.

I agree that not everything is Kosher (I hope you know what that means).
BUT GNUPG'S HOMEPAGE ISN'T THE PLACE FOR PERSONAL VIEWS !!!

> You are NO ONE here to talk about the morality of this war (or the
> banner).

The banner in my opinion is immoral like the war is immoral in your opinion
!
But I don't say that, in a BIG BANNER on gnupg.org

> And, even if you think I'm lying, I want to be your friend. But maybe
> you can't have friends if their ideas are so different from yours.

I don't think you are lying (although you _did_ call me one)
If you want to be a good friend you shouldn't insult your friends !!!
Of course I can have friends with different opinions, and I do have friends
with different views all over the world !!!
Unfortunately your cynicism is the only obstacle.

P.S.
I'm sorry for not answering your former email